I'm not sure what your problems are with the story or Lynch's handling of it? Please clarify.
Maggie's done a good job of explaining this:
my disappointment would be not so much that their aren't themes, but rather that they are entirely pedestrian and uninteresting. Who doesn't think that you should keep on trying even when things look bleak? Seriously. It's not a theme that tells me *anything* that I don't already know.
But there's something else to add from my perspective and that's the lack in the layered presence of the themes. Whedon's themes are present in the actions of the characters but also present in the language *and* the art of the piece, which when read superficially doesn't resonate thematically. But when you are doing a close reading, they keep rising up. What's more, I can find multiple themes and ideas in every issue of Season 8. There's big themes for the season and there's little themes that are almost like subheadings of the themes exploring the little nuances because the themes aren't "pedestrian and uninteresting", but make you consider the meaning of humanity, rather than just tell you straight 'this is the moral kids, keep on chugging along'.
With After the Fall it's just simplistic themes for the entire story. And it doesn't make me think the way Season 8 does. I remarked recently that the only thing AtF makes me wonder if who's going to die next - and now we know. No one died that wasn't dead or already dying in NFA. And there's still hope for Gunn. I think the best example of a non-simplistic theme in AtS would be in Season 4 when Lilah paints Angel and the good guys defeating Jasmine as "ending world peace". Hamnoo? But it's a question with no clear answer. How important is free will compared to peace? What is an appropriate price to pay for peace on Earth?
The plot is actually tighter than Buffy.
Well, I'd say yes the plot is tighter if we were only reading #1-5, then skip to #9 and continue to the end. First Night's placement makes no sense to me and its unclear when Spike: AtF is meant to be read. If a newcomer read S: AtF before you start AtF (which makes sense, its set before AtF), then you're spoiled for the dramatic reveal of Gunn being a vampire in the first issues of AtF. So S: AtF doesn't go there. But where *does* it go? It's unclear. And considering that S: AtF adds important character development to Spike, Illyria and Connor - I view it as necessary to the story. Except it's a separate story, so its divergent existence really downplays that AtF is tightly plotted when unplanned off-shoots of the main story keep getting created.
Season 8's design puts one-shots and mini-arcs into the heart of its nature. After the Fall was being sold as a story told like a mini-series or movie. Straight shot all the way through. It didn't happen that way.
Barring those narrative placement bungles, yes it is more tightly plotted when you look at just #1-5, #9-17 (presumably since it hasnt been released yet) and also when you just look at Spike: AtF. But they just don't fit together well with the original storytellers intent. I view AtF as being written with the plot and character moments driving the story. Not the theme. And I think the lack of prioritizing the theme is evident.
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Continuing due to passing the word limit above
Date: 2009-01-22 04:47 pm (UTC)Maggie's done a good job of explaining this:
my disappointment would be not so much that their aren't themes, but rather that they are entirely pedestrian and uninteresting. Who doesn't think that you should keep on trying even when things look bleak? Seriously. It's not a theme that tells me *anything* that I don't already know.
But there's something else to add from my perspective and that's the lack in the layered presence of the themes. Whedon's themes are present in the actions of the characters but also present in the language *and* the art of the piece, which when read superficially doesn't resonate thematically. But when you are doing a close reading, they keep rising up. What's more, I can find multiple themes and ideas in every issue of Season 8. There's big themes for the season and there's little themes that are almost like subheadings of the themes exploring the little nuances because the themes aren't "pedestrian and uninteresting", but make you consider the meaning of humanity, rather than just tell you straight 'this is the moral kids, keep on chugging along'.
With After the Fall it's just simplistic themes for the entire story. And it doesn't make me think the way Season 8 does. I remarked recently that the only thing AtF makes me wonder if who's going to die next - and now we know. No one died that wasn't dead or already dying in NFA. And there's still hope for Gunn. I think the best example of a non-simplistic theme in AtS would be in Season 4 when Lilah paints Angel and the good guys defeating Jasmine as "ending world peace". Hamnoo? But it's a question with no clear answer. How important is free will compared to peace? What is an appropriate price to pay for peace on Earth?
The plot is actually tighter than Buffy.
Well, I'd say yes the plot is tighter if we were only reading #1-5, then skip to #9 and continue to the end. First Night's placement makes no sense to me and its unclear when Spike: AtF is meant to be read. If a newcomer read S: AtF before you start AtF (which makes sense, its set before AtF), then you're spoiled for the dramatic reveal of Gunn being a vampire in the first issues of AtF. So S: AtF doesn't go there. But where *does* it go? It's unclear. And considering that S: AtF adds important character development to Spike, Illyria and Connor - I view it as necessary to the story. Except it's a separate story, so its divergent existence really downplays that AtF is tightly plotted when unplanned off-shoots of the main story keep getting created.
Season 8's design puts one-shots and mini-arcs into the heart of its nature. After the Fall was being sold as a story told like a mini-series or movie. Straight shot all the way through. It didn't happen that way.
Barring those narrative placement bungles, yes it is more tightly plotted when you look at just #1-5, #9-17 (presumably since it hasnt been released yet) and also when you just look at Spike: AtF. But they just don't fit together well with the original storytellers intent. I view AtF as being written with the plot and character moments driving the story. Not the theme. And I think the lack of prioritizing the theme is evident.