So if you could help talk me down, it'd be very much appreciated.
Hee. I'll try. But with the caveat that I actually agree with some of the concerns that you've raised above. And I do, to a degree struggle with the story. As I was telling Emmie, I find ATF more enjoyable when I don't analyze it. While Buffy S8 is more enjoyable when I do analyze it or read someone else's analysis.
I don't know how much of Lynch's work that you've read. I'll tell you what I've read - being an unapologetic and pseudo-obsessed Spike fan - I've read all Lynch's Spike comics. Actually I've read all the Spike comics. I loved Lynch, because in comparison to the other comics, he was a breath of fresh air. Peter David didn't appear to get the character at all or he did but at a far more rudimentary level(Old Wounds, Spike vs. Dracula). Lynch seemed to get Spike's internal struggle the best - and was the closest to Whedon's vision of the character - which has been more or less supported by the fact that Whedon selected Lynch to write ATF based on Spike:Asylum and Spike:Shadow Puppets (which in some respects, were in my opinion, far better written and drawn than ATF was). The other Lynch comic I tried to read and gave up on was a Zombie one - the humor was there, but the writer bugged me on other issues, which I won't bore you with a long sub-tangent on, except to say they are to a degree similar to the issues you are currently having with ATF and that I to a degree have with ATF.
You ask above it Lynch sees Angel's struggle as internally motivated or externally? I'd say mostly internally. If there's any external - it's probably Whedon. I don't think Lynch cares all that much about social-political themes or the external issues. Whedon is the rare writer who cares about both - which is why he appealed to such a diverse group of fans. You will see psychological analysis of Whedon's work or internal struggles, as well as sociological and political analysis in essays on Slayage and elsewhere. I think Lynch in some respects is more limited in his outlook, but to be fair, he is also a lot younger than Whedon and not as experienced a writer.
I think Lynch does some of the characters internal struggles rather well. Spike - for example - he appears to have a fairly firm grasp on. He does not, and he's admitted this in interviews, really understand what Whedon was up to regarding the Spike/Buffy dynamic in S6-7. (But a lot of people don't understand that, so I've gotten used to it and more or less shrug it off.) Nor is he a fan of Spuffy. (Which I am by the way. Favorite ship in the series for reasons a lot of people don't understand.) That said, he's been good about not going there, possibly because Whedon drew a line in the sand and told him not to? From the interview in the back of the mag and Whedon's interview reproduced above - I think Whedon told him - look you can do whatever you want, but this, this, and this need to happen and this, this, and this can't happen or you will screw up what I'm doing. Then swore him to an oath of secrecy not to leak what those items were.
I know this isn't exactly talking you down. But it's better, if we can figure out what we agree on. More productive or so I'm learning. Hee.
That said, I think and I see this in all of Whedon's projects, that point of view is very important here. From your post above - I get the feeling that you may be disregarding this. A lot of fans and readers seem to shrug it off or disregard it. And you really shouldn't - it's key to understanding the story the writer is telling. I'll discuss that in next response, because I think this may be getting too long. And therefore tough to read.
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I'll try but with the following caveat.
Date: 2009-01-24 04:22 pm (UTC)Hee. I'll try. But with the caveat that I actually agree with some of the concerns that you've raised above. And I do, to a degree struggle with the story. As I was telling Emmie, I find ATF more enjoyable when I don't analyze it. While Buffy S8 is more enjoyable when I do analyze it or read someone else's analysis.
I don't know how much of Lynch's work that you've read. I'll tell you what I've read - being an unapologetic and pseudo-obsessed Spike fan - I've read all Lynch's Spike comics. Actually I've read all the Spike comics. I loved Lynch, because in comparison to the other comics, he was a breath of fresh air. Peter David didn't appear to get the character at all or he did but at a far more rudimentary level(Old Wounds, Spike vs. Dracula). Lynch seemed to get Spike's internal struggle the best - and was the closest to Whedon's vision of the character - which has been more or less supported by the fact that Whedon selected Lynch to write ATF based on Spike:Asylum and Spike:Shadow Puppets (which in some respects, were in my opinion, far better written and drawn than ATF was). The other Lynch comic I tried to read and gave up on was a Zombie one - the humor was there, but the writer bugged me on other issues, which I won't bore you with a long sub-tangent on, except to say they are to a degree similar to the issues you are currently having with ATF and that I to a degree have with ATF.
You ask above it Lynch sees Angel's struggle as internally motivated or externally? I'd say mostly internally. If there's any external - it's probably Whedon. I don't think Lynch cares all that much about social-political themes or the external issues. Whedon is the rare writer who cares about both - which is why he appealed to such a diverse group of fans. You will see psychological analysis of Whedon's work or internal struggles, as well as sociological and political analysis in essays on Slayage and elsewhere. I think Lynch in some respects is more limited in his outlook, but to be fair, he is also a lot younger than Whedon and not as experienced a writer.
I think Lynch does some of the characters internal struggles rather well.
Spike - for example - he appears to have a fairly firm grasp on. He does not, and he's admitted this in interviews, really understand what Whedon was up to regarding the Spike/Buffy dynamic in S6-7. (But a lot of people don't understand that, so I've gotten used to it and more or less shrug it off.) Nor is he a fan of Spuffy. (Which I am by the way. Favorite ship in the series for reasons a lot of people don't understand.) That said, he's been good about not going there, possibly because Whedon drew a line in the sand and told him not to? From the interview in the back of the mag and Whedon's interview reproduced above - I think Whedon told him - look you can do whatever you want, but this, this, and this need to happen and this, this, and this can't happen or you will screw up what I'm doing.
Then swore him to an oath of secrecy not to leak what those items were.
I know this isn't exactly talking you down. But it's better, if we can figure out what we agree on. More productive or so I'm learning. Hee.
That said, I think and I see this in all of Whedon's projects, that point of view is very important here. From your post above - I get the feeling that you may be disregarding this. A lot of fans and readers seem to shrug it off or disregard it. And you really shouldn't - it's key to understanding the story the writer is telling. I'll discuss that in next response, because I think this may be getting too long. And therefore tough to read.