And as far as Angel and Spike go, didn't AtF reset the timeline back to the end of Not Fade Away?
Hmmm. For it to be Spike or Angel. One thing has to be established - that they weren't busy elsewhere at the time Buffy was fighting or dealing with Twilight.
For that to work, the following assumptions must be true. And I see no evidence in the comics that they are in any way.
1. That Buffy S8 takes place after NFA.
There's no clear evidence this is true. I haven't read all of Whedon's interviews - but the one's I have, he doesn't say when it takes place, just that it is after S7.
We do however have a few clues in the comics that Buffy S8 may actually be taking place around the second half of Angel S5.
1. Giles and Faith's arc. Until that arc, Giles clearly was in the habit of killing or getting rid of Rogue slayers. And Buffy still does - as seen by both Buffy and Gile's behavior towards Gigi, who by the way is no where near as dangerous and sociopathic as Dana was in Damage.
At the end of the Giles/Faith arc -"No Future for You" - Giles and Faith make a pact to save rogue slayers and rehabilitate them.
Andrew in Damage - demonstrates that he is more than capable of lying to Angel and Spike. Also he talks a lot about Giles in that episode and how Giles is training him. His interaction with Buffy is sparse at best.
This I think clues us in to the fact that Damage took place after No Future for You.
2. Harmonic Divergence - this issue is a major plot changer. Also it is clear before NFA in both the Buffyverse and the Angelverse - people were not aware of the Supernatural. After NFA and what happens to the Angel team they are.
You are assuming the reset included the entire planet. What if it just involved the people in LA? What if time went on without them? When they return there are huge differences. WRH is gone and replaced with a doublemeat palace sign - as if it has been gone for some time. People are addressing Angel as a legend, not the head-honcho of WRH. Harmony - who was a secretary in WRH is in a reality series - or somewhere else about to be in one. But Harmonic Diviregence takes place in Santa Monica, not LA. So it is more than possible that both are happening at the same time.
Okay, now, since Damage clearly comes after No Future for You - and Twilight showed up as early as The Long Way Home - I'd say it's a bit far-fetched for Angel and Spike to be Twilight - based on that alone.
But, here's futher bits:
1. Angel and Spike are vampires and sort of into magic. Twilight is not a vampire as far as I can tell.
2. There's no clear reason established why Angel or Spike would team up against Buffy. She's the love of their lives.
3. Whedon is loosely involved in plotting ATF and not that invested in the outcome. So he's not trying to establish either as Twilight - like he established Willow as Darkwillow.
4. Speech mannerisms and phsyique don't fit either character. Twilight sounds more like Caleb.
5. Twilight doesn't have authority issues and gets along with the military. Spike and Angel despise the military and have huge authority issues. Also they already tried that with WRH, been there, done that.
No, it just doesn't work logically within the framework of the narrative. Too many leaps.
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Re: part 2 - Why Twilight isn't Angel or Spike
Date: 2009-01-27 05:46 pm (UTC)Hmmm. For it to be Spike or Angel. One thing has to be established - that they weren't busy elsewhere at the time Buffy was fighting or dealing with Twilight.
For that to work, the following assumptions must be true. And I see no evidence in the comics that they are in any way.
1. That Buffy S8 takes place after NFA.
There's no clear evidence this is true. I haven't read all of Whedon's interviews - but the one's I have, he doesn't say when it takes place, just that it is after S7.
We do however have a few clues in the comics that Buffy S8 may actually be taking place around the second half of Angel S5.
1. Giles and Faith's arc. Until that arc, Giles clearly was in the habit of killing or getting rid of Rogue slayers. And Buffy still does - as seen by both Buffy and Gile's behavior towards Gigi, who by the way is no where near as dangerous and sociopathic as Dana was in Damage.
At the end of the Giles/Faith arc -"No Future for You" - Giles and Faith make a pact to save rogue slayers and rehabilitate them.
Andrew in Damage - demonstrates that he is more than capable of lying to Angel and Spike. Also he talks a lot about Giles in that episode and how Giles is training him. His interaction with Buffy is sparse at best.
This I think clues us in to the fact that Damage took place after No Future for You.
2. Harmonic Divergence - this issue is a major plot changer. Also it is clear before NFA in both the Buffyverse and the Angelverse - people were not aware of the Supernatural. After NFA and what happens to the Angel team they are.
You are assuming the reset included the entire planet. What if it just involved the people in LA? What if time went on without them? When they return there are huge differences. WRH is gone and replaced with a doublemeat palace sign - as if it has been gone for some time. People are addressing Angel as a legend, not the head-honcho of WRH. Harmony - who was a secretary in WRH is in a reality series - or somewhere else about to be in one. But Harmonic Diviregence takes place in Santa Monica, not LA.
So it is more than possible that both are happening at the same time.
Okay, now, since Damage clearly comes after No Future for You - and Twilight showed up as early as The Long Way Home - I'd say it's a bit far-fetched for Angel and Spike to be Twilight - based on that alone.
But, here's futher bits:
1. Angel and Spike are vampires and sort of into magic. Twilight is not a vampire as far as I can tell.
2. There's no clear reason established why Angel or Spike would team up against Buffy. She's the love of their lives.
3. Whedon is loosely involved in plotting ATF and not that invested in the outcome.
So he's not trying to establish either as Twilight - like he established Willow as Darkwillow.
4. Speech mannerisms and phsyique don't fit either character. Twilight sounds more like Caleb.
5. Twilight doesn't have authority issues and gets along with the military. Spike and Angel despise the military and have huge authority issues. Also they already tried that with WRH, been there, done that.
No, it just doesn't work logically within the framework of the narrative.
Too many leaps.