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Spike and Season 8
I’m under the impression that a lot of people assume that Spike will certainly not figure in season 8, and that Joss either never was interested in Spike (or Spuffy) or he views that story as settled and is just moving on. Of course, we won’t know until the tale is done, but it does seem to me that it would be very strange if the same writer who knew that Angel marked Buffy for life didn’t think that Spike, who played at least as major a role in Buffy’s story, could vanish from her story without trace. But all I want to argue for here is the proposition that based on what we have seen in the first 21 issues, there is plenty of room for Spike to enter the story, perhaps even in an important way.
Before getting to the text, it’s worth observing that Scott Allie has said (Slayalive Q&A #20, question 4) that Joss has the right to use the characters in Angel as much as he likes. There thus seems to be no contractual reason for Spike to remain offstage. All that will matter is what the story demands.
While I wouldn’t go so far as to argue that the story demands that Spike play a role, there is a fair amount of text at this point that would retrospectively set up his appearance.
1. Buffy is the main character of the series. (Duh). When last we saw her, Spike was arguably the most important person in her world – the one who was in her heart, the one with whom she shared the fiery hands of passion, the one whose name was the last word she spoke in the entire series, the one with whom she spent what could well have been her last night in the world, the one who stood by her when all her other significant folks kicked her out of her own house, etc. etc. etc. The status of Buffy’s relationship with the person who was so very important to her was left hanging at the end of the story. It matters how it is resolved. Really. Angel hung over her story for years. It’s unreasonable to think that Spike vanished without a trace in 18 months, or that the resolution of Buffy's story with Spike is insignficant.
And it’s not like the writers of season 8 are insensible of the fact that romantic story lines from season 7 need to be resolved in season 8. Pretty much the first thing we learn about Faith in #6 is that Robin ended up not surprising her – she’s still very much alone. It took a while, but we finally learn that Xander really did spend some serious time mourning Anya (#13). If Joss really wanted to close off the Spike/Buffy story line, he’d have done so much the way Faith/Robin got closed out. He didn’t.
2. On the contrary, one of the first things Joss tells us about Buffy is that she doesn’t know the significance of the Immortal to either Angel or Spike. It opens the door to the possibility that she does not know that they tried to track her down in TGIQ. Far from closing the story down, Joss offers a tantalizing detail that reminds us that we really don’t know where things stand between Buffy and Spike.
3. There is the mysterious absence of Spike from Buffy’s dream space (#3), where every other significant figure in her life is present. (With the possible exception of Hank). Angel is here, as is Riley. Tara, and Dawn, and Faith, and, Joyce, and all the major villains and the Scoobies. There are cubes from early in Buffy’s life through season 7 (Xander with an eye patch; Caleb). There are three ways I can think of to account for this fact. (a) The scenes and figures drawn were chosen by Jeanty and have no particular significance. But Enisy asked Allie about this, and Allie says that Joss did interact with Jeanty both about what should be there and about what should not be there (Slayalive Q&A #19, question 6). (b) Buffy really doesn’t see Spike as an important person in her life (beyond his usefulness in her erotic fantasies). That defies imagination. Whether it’s the fiery hands of passion or the bathroom scene, Spike has impacted Buffy enormously, both in good ways and in bad ways. (c) The absence is significant in a way that has yet to be revealed.
4. Buffy finally mentions Spike in A Beautiful Sunset sandwiched between Angel and Riley. As already noted, both Angel and Riley figured in her dream space. They’ve also both (now) appeared in the series. Angel in a nod to what lies firmly behind Buffy (#20); and Riley as either a villain or an undercover ally (#19). If two of the three major loves in Buffy’s life deserve a role in the series, it is even stranger that Joss couldn’t be arsed to close out a dangling thread about her most recent romantic involvement.
5. There are plenty of places where one can read resonances with Buffy’s history with Spike, things that could take on different shades if Spike turns out to be part of this story. In the first battle we are shown, Buffy is in a church killing a demon with a cross. The last time we saw Buffy in a church with a demon, the demon was draped on the cross in one of the most arresting images of the entire series. General Voll points to the crater at Sunnydale and says “look what she did to her hometown”. But when Buffy last had anything to say about what caused that crater, her answer was “Spike”. In Buffy’s dream about Xander, she promises to be gentle “this time”, yet knocks off Xander’s head and worries about being dark. There are resonances here with her not-so-gentle relationship with Spike, which was epitomized in the alley scene in Dead Things where she didn’t quite knock his head off. Buffy even says “oh balls” here, which is a line that comes from that scene in DT. Ethan’s entrance into her dream is teased as Spike (we just see his Spike-like clothes at the end of #2) and Buffy explicitly objects to him calling her “pet”. Skipping ahead, and going in less detail: Dracula’s relationship with Xander mirrors in some ways Spike’s relationship with Buffy (evil vampire crossing lines to help the good guys because of love); Willow tells Frey that the most important men in Buffy’s life are lurks (and that that fact makes it too simple to say that Buffy’s life is about eliminating them); and in the most recent issue we have Clem and Harmony allied, the two demons who were friendly with Spike during his time in Sunnydale. None of these allusions or references have to mean anything. But they are available to mean something if Spike turns out to figure in the story.
So we’ll see. It’s true that we’re nearly two years into the comics. But we’re also just over half way through the “season”. And in many of the seasons on Buffy, the real contours of the season aren’t revealed until the second half. It’s too soon to claim that Joss is going to pay no attention to Spike. Indeed, I tend to think that the strange absences and silences point to a larger role rather than a smaller one – since the failure to close out Spike/Buffy quickly seems to demand some sort of pay-off when the story finally is continued.
Re: I'll try but with the following caveat.
This might be a difference: I'm post-Spuffy.
On this we actually agree. I'm post-Spuffy too. Like you, I don't see the character of Buffy in a long term romantic relationship - something Buffy has actually come to terms with as have both Angel and Spike. Buffy riding off into the sunset with Spike never quite worked for me. In some ways I find it far more interesting that they didn't do that.
What I want is the exact same thing you do in regards to that in BS8.
I am not sure, however, that I share your confidence that Whedon will do it, I hope he will - but I'm not sure if he sees it much the same way he saw Cordy and Angel in what he told Lynch - which was Cordy's arc was completed, don't bring her back unless absolutely necessary.
Your remark that Lynch doesn't understand Spuffy is alarming because, of course, it's central to how one understands Spike.
I think from Lynch's pov, Spuffy made Spike less cool, weak, and not the snarky cool guy.
I don't agree with that pov. But having read one of comics outside of the Whedonverse by Lynch - the guy likes his characters snarky, his dames either tough or damsely. Depth isn't his strong-suit. He tends to be very pulpy as a writer. His Spike comics are actually the best ones.
I have read all of Lynch's Spike stuff. I did like Asylum very much. With an important caveat. It seemed off about where Spike is vis a vis Angel, depending on where in the season 5 arc you thought it was.
My guess is that it was shortly after Smile Time - due to Lorne references and references to Smile Time, but I could be wrong.
Minor caveats were that I don't see Spike as someone who is a braggart about sex. There were the teeniest hints of that in Lynch's earlier Spike work, it became very much a nails on the chalk board thing for me here.
How so on the sex part? Do you mean locker room bragging? As guys do about women they've shagged? I think most men do that and that's a guy thing. Lynch probably does it and is projecting. Let's face it men can be pigs. Hee.
Would Spike? Well, we know he has issues with the ladies. In fact the man not only loves women, but they are his achillees heel. And women love him.
Also he is a bit of a (excuse the term) pig at times - this was established on both shows. And as a vampire has no inhibitions. I can see him bragging about sex. He likes to brag. That was his intro in School Hard: "I don't like to brag...what am I talking about, I loooove to brag." But in the bragging he makes fun of himself.
Spike is the opposite of Angel in this regard, he brags, he chats, he talks, he likes being around people, and he makes fun of himself and things in general verbally. Angel isn't a verbal character. Spike is.
In Buffy's dream - she says to Angel - we were never very good at talking.
That's because Angel isn't into to talking about things. Spike - Angel comments in ATF - talks all the time, when he doesn't have his cigarettes or something. He also says it in Angel S5.
Lynch does love Spike (and I know he does), he's not leading me to deeper insights or understandings about the character I adore.
Well, I agree, nothing "deep". We've gotten more guilt.
And we've gotten more self-loathing. But nothing clear-cut. Nothing worth analyzing. But he hasn't done it for any of the characters. And I'm not sure Whedon's doing it either on BS8 at the moment.
I have a rather visceral reaction to the idea that Angel is the sort of guy who would jump from a 10-story building to help someone, while Spike would take an elevator.
I saw it as pragmatic and smart. And Angel's action as deeply stupid. Angel broke his back in the fall. Spike is in some respects a little more pragmatic. He also learns from his mistakes - something Whedon pointed out, while Angel seems to keep making the same ones over and over again.
If I were Spike, I'd have taken the elevator. Jumping off the building could cause problems - you might land in the wrong place, it would hurt (they still get hurt, just heal fast), and he wouldn't have the element of surprise. Plus, reluctant hero - part of him is thinking, this hell, dammit, why am I bothering? A perfectly rational response.
TBC because I ran out of room.