World-ending space frakking. On what basis are we saying that Joss's version didn't work? Because it didn't live up to Joss's intention for the use of that motif? If so, why compare it to Promethea? Or because Moore did it better? If so, I call foul on assuming that Joss intends what Moore intended and judging him by a standard he wasn't even aiming at. Aycheb spells the specifics on this out quite well. Joss doesn't want you to be transported by the sex; Moore does. They are after different things. Moore's sex was supposed to be moving in a way that Whedon's sex was not.
I share your temptation about how to view Metlzer's role, and your very good objection to it. I'd rather it not turn out to be that.
I do think Twilight needs to work internally to the story. I think I can see, with Aycheb, what was being aimed at in terms of Buffy turning to Angel. He's always been what she had to give up, it makes sense that beaten down so hard she might go ahead and grab it. I think the tone of the sex actually works with the theme because the actuality probably falls well short of what she long yearned for. That's true to life. We get what we want and we never want it again. The tone on the frakking doesn't bug me. On the contrary, if it had been beautiful and transporting I'd have been devastated and disappointed. Devastated because I don't want twu wuv Bangel validated. Disappointed because I read BtVS as not being about to validate a hearts and flowers view of love. I'd much rather leave that junk to Meyer's Twilight.
I think there had been a prior failure to really make Buffy's despair palpable. I had to think it through rather than feel it. It might have worked better if I hadn't read it month by month -- but the way I did read it just wasn't a very powerful emotional experience. I wonder what it will look like when I step back and read it all like a novel, but that doesn't fix the lack of impact it's had on me reading it this way.
I think the universe evolution stuff is baffling. Like I said to Flake Sake, I am willing to believe that the jumbled explanation is intentional -- no character serves as the authorial voice of true exposition. When you think of the various explanations given you can see why each one fits the character who is giving it. We started one of the issues with the Rorschach blot. This is what we have. Anyway, if (as I suspect) we are meant to experience the same confusion and temptation to fill in the blanks according to our own prior templates, I think the arc works very well. But if we *still* don't know what's going on by the end of Last Gleaming, then the best I could say for Joss is he was trying some avant garde deal of telling a story by not acutally telling the story. But I'm hoping that he is telling a story and we'll know what's happening by the end.
Angel seems be setting up as nothing but a puppet. He's been there before. I'm not sure how it works dramatically to find out he's a puppet -- but it does get rid of the motivation problems that are otherwise legion.
Have I covered all the bases? I still don't know what the big picture is -- which means it's all up in the air. But I don't see that it must necessarily fail based on what we have so far.
Maybe I'm being too forgiving. I'm a shark who smells blood in the water and at the end of the day, maybe that's all I care about.
no subject
I share your temptation about how to view Metlzer's role, and your very good objection to it. I'd rather it not turn out to be that.
I do think Twilight needs to work internally to the story. I think I can see, with Aycheb, what was being aimed at in terms of Buffy turning to Angel. He's always been what she had to give up, it makes sense that beaten down so hard she might go ahead and grab it. I think the tone of the sex actually works with the theme because the actuality probably falls well short of what she long yearned for. That's true to life. We get what we want and we never want it again. The tone on the frakking doesn't bug me. On the contrary, if it had been beautiful and transporting I'd have been devastated and disappointed. Devastated because I don't want twu wuv Bangel validated. Disappointed because I read BtVS as not being about to validate a hearts and flowers view of love. I'd much rather leave that junk to Meyer's Twilight.
I think there had been a prior failure to really make Buffy's despair palpable. I had to think it through rather than feel it. It might have worked better if I hadn't read it month by month -- but the way I did read it just wasn't a very powerful emotional experience. I wonder what it will look like when I step back and read it all like a novel, but that doesn't fix the lack of impact it's had on me reading it this way.
I think the universe evolution stuff is baffling. Like I said to Flake Sake, I am willing to believe that the jumbled explanation is intentional -- no character serves as the authorial voice of true exposition. When you think of the various explanations given you can see why each one fits the character who is giving it. We started one of the issues with the Rorschach blot. This is what we have. Anyway, if (as I suspect) we are meant to experience the same confusion and temptation to fill in the blanks according to our own prior templates, I think the arc works very well. But if we *still* don't know what's going on by the end of Last Gleaming, then the best I could say for Joss is he was trying some avant garde deal of telling a story by not acutally telling the story. But I'm hoping that he is telling a story and we'll know what's happening by the end.
Angel seems be setting up as nothing but a puppet. He's been there before. I'm not sure how it works dramatically to find out he's a puppet -- but it does get rid of the motivation problems that are otherwise legion.
Have I covered all the bases? I still don't know what the big picture is -- which means it's all up in the air. But I don't see that it must necessarily fail based on what we have so far.
Maybe I'm being too forgiving. I'm a shark who smells blood in the water and at the end of the day, maybe that's all I care about.