Yup. And it's yet another play off Always Darkest...Buffy can't tell Spike and Angel apart because they are wearing the same outfit (a soul). (A discriminating Buffy would be able to tell the difference between a curse and a quest).
I wonder if Joss would actually go there. I wonder how on good terms he is with David Greenwalt. He seems pretty willing to trash Angel, which no the one hand I think is kind of cool (because antihero Angel is my favourite Angel) but I do wonder if having Angel not only not be Buffy's twu luv anymore, but the person she shouldn't have loved in the first place, may be too much for the character and his fans to bear.
It also would give the blurb a nice symmetry. Buffy has to go back to the place of indiscrimnate love (Angel), where the Scoobies were formed (Scoobies) and the hell mouth was closed (Spike).
When 34 came out I mentioned right away that the three vamps in the Giles-exposition flashbacks where black-hair, red-haired, and white-haired, which still seem to me to mean Angel, Willow, Spike in that order (Willow is not a vamp, but she has been coded as one in ToYL and is superpowered and possibly immortal now besides). So I am on board.
If these three are the problem, I wonder if this means that there will be a break--permanent, even?--with Angel, Spike and the Scoobies--or just Angel, Spike and WILLOW? The end of Anywhere But Here, with the two walking away in opposite directions, as well as Buffy killing Willow, may herald a rift there in particular. Buffy and Giles are already pretty rifty. Though your theory about a Dawn-related rift with Xander is tempting....
Dawn: Dawn is complicated though, isn't she? Because in one set of memories, she came in years after Spike did--and wasn't "real" so was never in Sunnydale; but in the other she first appeared in Buffy's life as a baby in L.A., long before Sunnydale.
If Dawn is left out, that could mean that she's toast. It could mean that she's really Buffy's problem, and not the rest of them. This would tie into fandom as well (LOVE the fandom-ripped-apart insight)--the general idea that Dawn was the jump-the-shark moment, that Buffy shouldn't have jumped to save her sister, must have trickled through to Joss. You mention the rifts in fandom; well, there are very few Summers Sisters Power! fans (in comparison to the Spuffies, Bangels, Banders/Billows/Scooby-friendshippers), and fans used to shout "Shut up Dawn!" at OMWF screenings. Buffy's been ignoring Dawn all this time because (?) fandom ignores her too. All Buffy's late-series emotional problems happened after Dawn's entrance in the narrative forced her to become an adult. And if she's not real, then.... But that's kind of too horrible. Could Joss actually do that? Throw away Dawn and the last seasons of the show? Or maybe have Buffy make that choice, and regret it?
OR: maybe it really is Angel, the Scoobies, and Spike who are the problems--and the season ends with Dawn's keyness actually destroyed and Dawn, conversely, a real girl again. You talk about Living Doll's foreshadowing, but Dawn does turn into a real girl again at the end--the killing her thing is tempting but it really could be a mislead, and maybe it's the key part of her that gets killed off so that Buffy gets a real life with her sister.
I'm not sure who I'm more personally uncomfortable with as the source of Buffy's problems--Spike, Dawn, or the Scoobies. (I'm surprisingly okay with Angel being the source of her problems, but we know that's not it.) Since I'm very fond of Spike, Dawn and the Scoobies all, it's kind of tough.
I could probably live with a permanent Buffy/Giles separation if Giles gets to do "Ripper" finally, hopefully live action with AT LEAST a Dushku cameo and maybe Hannigan as well and ghosts of Jenny and Ethan and, sure, let's throw Quentin and Welsey in there too.... (If Ethan is dead.)
So many possibilities. It could turn out very bad for a Spike fan, but I'm still excited.
It could turn out bad for everyone! It's kind of an all-bets-are-off thing. So: yes, exciting.
I heart Joss's commentary! song in a big way.
Yes yes yes. "I said some things I didn't mean/Okay let's talk about this scene...."
no subject
I wonder if Joss would actually go there. I wonder how on good terms he is with David Greenwalt. He seems pretty willing to trash Angel, which no the one hand I think is kind of cool (because antihero Angel is my favourite Angel) but I do wonder if having Angel not only not be Buffy's twu luv anymore, but the person she shouldn't have loved in the first place, may be too much for the character and his fans to bear.
It also would give the blurb a nice symmetry. Buffy has to go back to the place of indiscrimnate love (Angel), where the Scoobies were formed (Scoobies) and the hell mouth was closed (Spike).
When 34 came out I mentioned right away that the three vamps in the Giles-exposition flashbacks where black-hair, red-haired, and white-haired, which still seem to me to mean Angel, Willow, Spike in that order (Willow is not a vamp, but she has been coded as one in ToYL and is superpowered and possibly immortal now besides). So I am on board.
If these three are the problem, I wonder if this means that there will be a break--permanent, even?--with Angel, Spike and the Scoobies--or just Angel, Spike and WILLOW? The end of Anywhere But Here, with the two walking away in opposite directions, as well as Buffy killing Willow, may herald a rift there in particular. Buffy and Giles are already pretty rifty. Though your theory about a Dawn-related rift with Xander is tempting....
Dawn: Dawn is complicated though, isn't she? Because in one set of memories, she came in years after Spike did--and wasn't "real" so was never in Sunnydale; but in the other she first appeared in Buffy's life as a baby in L.A., long before Sunnydale.
If Dawn is left out, that could mean that she's toast. It could mean that she's really Buffy's problem, and not the rest of them. This would tie into fandom as well (LOVE the fandom-ripped-apart insight)--the general idea that Dawn was the jump-the-shark moment, that Buffy shouldn't have jumped to save her sister, must have trickled through to Joss. You mention the rifts in fandom; well, there are very few Summers Sisters Power! fans (in comparison to the Spuffies, Bangels, Banders/Billows/Scooby-friendshippers), and fans used to shout "Shut up Dawn!" at OMWF screenings. Buffy's been ignoring Dawn all this time because (?) fandom ignores her too. All Buffy's late-series emotional problems happened after Dawn's entrance in the narrative forced her to become an adult. And if she's not real, then.... But that's kind of too horrible. Could Joss actually do that? Throw away Dawn and the last seasons of the show? Or maybe have Buffy make that choice, and regret it?
OR: maybe it really is Angel, the Scoobies, and Spike who are the problems--and the season ends with Dawn's keyness actually destroyed and Dawn, conversely, a real girl again. You talk about Living Doll's foreshadowing, but Dawn does turn into a real girl again at the end--the killing her thing is tempting but it really could be a mislead, and maybe it's the key part of her that gets killed off so that Buffy gets a real life with her sister.
I'm not sure who I'm more personally uncomfortable with as the source of Buffy's problems--Spike, Dawn, or the Scoobies. (I'm surprisingly okay with Angel being the source of her problems, but we know that's not it.) Since I'm very fond of Spike, Dawn and the Scoobies all, it's kind of tough.
I could probably live with a permanent Buffy/Giles separation if Giles gets to do "Ripper" finally, hopefully live action with AT LEAST a Dushku cameo and maybe Hannigan as well and ghosts of Jenny and Ethan and, sure, let's throw Quentin and Welsey in there too.... (If Ethan is dead.)
So many possibilities. It could turn out very bad for a Spike fan, but I'm still excited.
It could turn out bad for everyone! It's kind of an all-bets-are-off thing. So: yes, exciting.
I heart Joss's commentary! song in a big way.
Yes yes yes. "I said some things I didn't mean/Okay let's talk about this scene...."