First, I really was just mentioning the folks who really do say it's all about getting into her pants, even though there were obviously places in his story that can't be accounted for on those grounds. In other words, the folks who could well be trolls for all the sense their arguments make. It was just a set-up to blow into the real point, which is the second one I make.
The general point is that if the Spike-haters strategy is to say "if I can find one lower motive, or one potential motive that's lower, I can disqualify the goodness of the act entirely", they are missing the point that EVERYONE has multiple motives, and pretty much all of us could be disqualified if those are the grounds by which you want to judge. In other words, they are holding Spike to a different standard than the one they hold Buffy to or any other character whom they happen to admire.
I agree with you that the real conversation should be about the quality of the motivations, the type of 'selfishness' involved. Mother Theresa is "selfish" in the sense that she does what benefits her. But she's a saint because what benefits her is alleviating the suffering of others. Spike's taking torture because it would hurt him to see Buffy suffer is not as high up the scale as Mother Theresa, but it's pretty darned good. Spike's choice to stay and associate with people who are fighting the good fight is pretty good -- better than choosing to hang out with the lowlifes. etc. etc.
I still like the getting of the soul. But for reasons that are more complicated than the notion that a soulless person (oxymoron though that is) can't perform good acts.
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Date: 2009-01-27 12:42 am (UTC)The general point is that if the Spike-haters strategy is to say "if I can find one lower motive, or one potential motive that's lower, I can disqualify the goodness of the act entirely", they are missing the point that EVERYONE has multiple motives, and pretty much all of us could be disqualified if those are the grounds by which you want to judge. In other words, they are holding Spike to a different standard than the one they hold Buffy to or any other character whom they happen to admire.
I agree with you that the real conversation should be about the quality of the motivations, the type of 'selfishness' involved. Mother Theresa is "selfish" in the sense that she does what benefits her. But she's a saint because what benefits her is alleviating the suffering of others. Spike's taking torture because it would hurt him to see Buffy suffer is not as high up the scale as Mother Theresa, but it's pretty darned good. Spike's choice to stay and associate with people who are fighting the good fight is pretty good -- better than choosing to hang out with the lowlifes. etc. etc.
I still like the getting of the soul. But for reasons that are more complicated than the notion that a soulless person (oxymoron though that is) can't perform good acts.