maggie2 | Spike and Season 8

It's not so obvious to me that Spike isn't going to play a role in season 8

I’m under the impression that a lot of people assume that Spike will certainly not figure in season 8, and that Joss either never was interested in Spike (or Spuffy) or he views that story as settled and is just moving on. Of course, we won’t know until the tale is done, but it does seem to me that it would be very strange if the same writer who knew that Angel marked Buffy for life didn’t think that Spike, who played at least as major a role in Buffy’s story, could vanish from her story without trace. But all I want to argue for here is the proposition that based on what we have seen in the first 21 issues, there is plenty of room for Spike to enter the story, perhaps even in an important way.

Before getting to the text, it’s worth observing that Scott Allie has said (Slayalive Q&A #20, question 4) that Joss has the right to use the characters in Angel as much as he likes. There thus seems to be no contractual reason for Spike to remain offstage. All that will matter is what the story demands.

While I wouldn’t go so far as to argue that the story demands that Spike play a role, there is a fair amount of text at this point that would retrospectively set up his appearance.

1. Buffy is the main character of the series. (Duh). When last we saw her, Spike was arguably the most important person in her world – the one who was in her heart, the one with whom she shared the fiery hands of passion, the one whose name was the last word she spoke in the entire series, the one with whom she spent what could well have been her last night in the world, the one who stood by her when all her other significant folks kicked her out of her own house, etc. etc. etc. The status of Buffy’s relationship with the person who was so very important to her was left hanging at the end of the story. It matters how it is resolved. Really. Angel hung over her story for years. It’s unreasonable to think that Spike vanished without a trace in 18 months, or that the resolution of Buffy's story with Spike is insignficant.

And it’s not like the writers of season 8 are insensible of the fact that romantic story lines from season 7 need to be resolved in season 8. Pretty much the first thing we learn about Faith in #6 is that Robin ended up not surprising her – she’s still very much alone. It took a while, but we finally learn that Xander really did spend some serious time mourning Anya (#13). If Joss really wanted to close off the Spike/Buffy story line, he’d have done so much the way Faith/Robin got closed out. He didn’t.

2. On the contrary, one of the first things Joss tells us about Buffy is that she doesn’t know the significance of the Immortal to either Angel or Spike. It opens the door to the possibility that she does not know that they tried to track her down in TGIQ. Far from closing the story down, Joss offers a tantalizing detail that reminds us that we really don’t know where things stand between Buffy and Spike.

3. There is the mysterious absence of Spike from Buffy’s dream space (#3), where every other significant figure in her life is present. (With the possible exception of Hank). Angel is here, as is Riley. Tara, and Dawn, and Faith, and, Joyce, and all the major villains and the Scoobies. There are cubes from early in Buffy’s life through season 7 (Xander with an eye patch; Caleb). There are three ways I can think of to account for this fact. (a) The scenes and figures drawn were chosen by Jeanty and have no particular significance. But Enisy asked Allie about this, and Allie says that Joss did interact with Jeanty both about what should be there and about what should not be there (Slayalive Q&A #19, question 6). (b) Buffy really doesn’t see Spike as an important person in her life (beyond his usefulness in her erotic fantasies). That defies imagination. Whether it’s the fiery hands of passion or the bathroom scene, Spike has impacted Buffy enormously, both in good ways and in bad ways. (c) The absence is significant in a way that has yet to be revealed.

4. Buffy finally mentions Spike in A Beautiful Sunset sandwiched between Angel and Riley. As already noted, both Angel and Riley figured in her dream space. They’ve also both (now) appeared in the series. Angel in a nod to what lies firmly behind Buffy (#20); and Riley as either a villain or an undercover ally (#19). If two of the three major loves in Buffy’s life deserve a role in the series, it is even stranger that Joss couldn’t be arsed to close out a dangling thread about her most recent romantic involvement.

5. There are plenty of places where one can read resonances with Buffy’s history with Spike, things that could take on different shades if Spike turns out to be part of this story. In the first battle we are shown, Buffy is in a church killing a demon with a cross. The last time we saw Buffy in a church with a demon, the demon was draped on the cross in one of the most arresting images of the entire series. General Voll points to the crater at Sunnydale and says “look what she did to her hometown”. But when Buffy last had anything to say about what caused that crater, her answer was “Spike”. In Buffy’s dream about Xander, she promises to be gentle “this time”, yet knocks off Xander’s head and worries about being dark. There are resonances here with her not-so-gentle relationship with Spike, which was epitomized in the alley scene in Dead Things where she didn’t quite knock his head off. Buffy even says “oh balls” here, which is a line that comes from that scene in DT. Ethan’s entrance into her dream is teased as Spike (we just see his Spike-like clothes at the end of #2) and Buffy explicitly objects to him calling her “pet”. Skipping ahead, and going in less detail: Dracula’s relationship with Xander mirrors in some ways Spike’s relationship with Buffy (evil vampire crossing lines to help the good guys because of love); Willow tells Frey that the most important men in Buffy’s life are lurks (and that that fact makes it too simple to say that Buffy’s life is about eliminating them); and in the most recent issue we have Clem and Harmony allied, the two demons who were friendly with Spike during his time in Sunnydale. None of these allusions or references have to mean anything. But they are available to mean something if Spike turns out to figure in the story.

So we’ll see. It’s true that we’re nearly two years into the comics. But we’re also just over half way through the “season”. And in many of the seasons on Buffy, the real contours of the season aren’t revealed until the second half. It’s too soon to claim that Joss is going to pay no attention to Spike. Indeed, I tend to think that the strange absences and silences point to a larger role rather than a smaller one – since the failure to close out Spike/Buffy quickly seems to demand some sort of pay-off when the story finally is continued.

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I must say that if Season 5 was when Whedon was most involved, it perhaps makes sense as to why it's always been my favorite season.

Hmmm, never thought of it from that perspective before. But it may explain why Season 5 is my favorite season as well. It's no secret that Whedon's favorite characters on Angel were - Wes, Illyria, Spike and Lorne.

While he might not have been as involved with other seasons of AtS, I still say he was way more involved than he currently is with AtF.

Yes. I think he was more involved with Angel S5 than he is with Angel S6 via the comics. With the possible exception of Illyria and Wes, I don't think he's as interested in the Angel characters.
I just wanted to clarify that I'm really enjoying After the Fall. Hard to believe, right? But I enjoyed reading #16 a lot. It's not that I don't enjoy the plot or the character moments Lynch has created. The characters have grown in interesting ways. But it's that I don't find it as thematically meaty as Season 8. So when it comes down to discussing it, I'm left with - "oh yeah, that scene was so cool!" After I've squee'd over it adequately, I'm left without any need to consider the thematic resonance of those moments and how they play on multiple levels. AtF just doesn't make me think as much as Season 8.

Thank you for this clarification. Yes, I am reading both comics exactly the same way. ATF feels a bit like an instant gratification fanfic to me - I want to know if Spike knows who Connor is? Bang - I'm told. I want to know what happened to Kate - bang told.

Buffy is more frustrating, because it's not giving me that instant gratification, or answering all those niggling questions like does Buffy know Spike's dead? Angel - we got what Angel felt for Cordy and he's relationship with her clarified in less than ten issues. Buffy and Spike? Not so much. But you are correct, it is deeper and more layered and far more ambitious and multi-faceted than Angel.

So, yes, I am reading both comics in much the same way you are and find myself analyzing one more than the other on most occassions.

Hee. :)

Yes, sometimes I think we fans misunderstand each other because there are so many out there who criticize S8 and AtF, tossing up their hands and saying, 'No more!' So often times when a person is criticizing either comic, I sometimes think they aren't enjoying it and just want to bash it.

I just see AtF as falling short of past seasons in a thematic sense. But then AtF delivers on emotional moments in more powerful ways than Season 8 - the connections between the characters in AtF feels a bit stronger and more poignant. I wish I could merge Whedon and Lynch together because I think their strengths would make an amazing comic.

angearia @ 08:55 pm: Re: Oh thank you for clarifying that -yes, agree absolutely!
Hee. :)

Yes, sometimes I think we fans misunderstand each other because there are so many out there who criticize S8 and AtF, tossing up their hands and saying, 'No more!' So often times when a person is criticizing either comic, I sometimes think they aren't enjoying it and just want to bash it.

Exactly. We end up talking past each other instead of with each other. That's why - I'm making a point of asking for clarification before launching into a full-scale defense of ATF. When we may actually agree on the strengths and weaknesses of both it and Buffy S8.

I just see AtF as falling short of past seasons in a thematic sense. But then AtF delivers on emotional moments in more powerful ways than Season 8 - the connections between the characters in AtF feels a bit stronger and more poignant.

Yes. ATF is actually in some ways more direct. Not to mention simpler. The plot certainly is. Lynch isn't going for the ambitious and somewhat controversial social-political themes that Whedon is attempting to address.

I think the two writers have very different reasons for writing these stories. Whedon want to communicate a spefic theme and ideal through his characters. Lynch just wants to communicate how he sees these characters and what will happen next. It's the difference between I think a fan who wants to know what happens to the characters next and the original writer who is interested in a lot more than that and wants to communicate that.

I wish I could merge Whedon and Lynch together because I think their strengths would make an amazing comic.

Me too. In some regards, I like Lynch's dialogue better and the emotion feels more, intense.

In short, I am responding to the comics much the same way you are. I tend to be more critical of the Buffy comics - because I'm frustrated and Whedon keeps introducing guest characters that I would have been happy not to see again, while ignoring ones that I miss. Lynch is doing the opposite, but the story while a lot of fun and enjoyable, is a tad on the obvious side.

I more worried about the Spike and Angel comics continuing - because according to the local comic book store guy - Angel makes about half of what the Buffy comics do. And Spike makes about half of what Angel does.
Also Lynch as a writer, apparently has not taken off with fans. He's not selling.