maggie2: (Default)
maggie2 ([personal profile] maggie2) wrote2010-08-28 06:37 pm

8.36: The Preview Pages


So with four days left to go before #36 finally comes out, I figure I'd waste some time pondering the preview pages.  They came out on a pretty crummy day, so I was grumpy when I first read them.  Random thoughts below the cut.

1.  So this is Angel from the future, or at least from 'a' future -- one where 'we' lost the war.  The war in question was in LA, but that may or may not be a purely local deal.  At the end of the preview we find out that future!Angel has some issues with the cheerleader.

The time travel angle has been in play all season long -- at least since #10 when Buffy talked about changing things if she was in a time loop.  Time travel gives me a headache, and I can only hope this is written in a way that doesn't boil down to some "the characters get an infinite number of chances to make things right so nothing really matters" sort of a deal.  The drama of life is that we only get one shot at it (says the woman who wishes she could have a do-over on a daily basis).  

2.  I love that Angel gets smashed by the O.  More call backs to season 2.

3.  DOG shows up.  His first line is "I know I'm a dog.  What a world, right?".  Reminds me of Spike in School Hard talking to Angel about what a world it is where people buy all that Anne Rice stuff.   There are a few other places where DOG sounds Spike-ish.  Fortunately there are places where DOG sounds not at all like Spike.

4. So the world's back the way it was supposed to be.  Fortunatley this is DOG speaking which means we don't necessarily have to assume that we really are playing the "reset and redo as many times as it takes to get it right" game.  The whole idea reminds me of fanfic, much of which is about resetting the game and getting it right.  Which is a perfectly fine and enjoyable game to play -- in fanfic.

5.  Angel pushes the O back into place.  Superpowers already in place then. 

6.  Another joke about balls!  Probably just the usual joke about why dogs lick themselves.  But it'd be cool if DOG turns out to be channeling Saga Vasuki -- a female type would probably be very entertained by the situation.

7.  Mention of Wesley.  Along with Angel's reaction to mention of Buffy makes me think that future!Angel isn't from so very far in (his) future.  The loss of the war rankles, and doesn't seem to be a dim memory.

8.  Angel is twitchy about "chosen".  Immediate reference is that he's twitchy about Buffy, which raises the possiblity that she had something to do with the war that was lost.   DOG asks what they're going to do about that, which Angel takes to be a threatening remark about Buffy.  I'd love it if the subtext here is that Angel is twitchy about who Buffy chose in Chosen, and that's what he ought to do something about.  Probably wishful thinking, since honestly having the first pages be about Angel was disappointing to my Spike-centric self.

9.  DOG is waiting for Angel to feel it.   Could mean Angel's superpowers -- maybe Angel didn't notice he had them when he pushed the O back up.  But this line resonates with FDW waiting for Buffy to feel it -- the weight of her failure.  In this case, Angel could be asked to feel something of how this world has changed.  Dunno.  It's pretty open ended.

There are two possible shoutouts to LOST: DOG looks like Vicent; there's an airplane about to crash.  Certainly the preview reminded me of the un-joy of watching LOST where questions piled up faster than answers were granted.  It's the last arc!  But we knew there had to be some big back story on Angel.  A war weary Angel who has lost everything makes some of Twangel easier to understand.  The cynicism about the inevitable deaths of mortals.  The lack of concern about seeing a world lost (since he's in a world that just got reconstituted after having already been lost).  

My big wish is that DOG be related to Saga Vasuki and/or Willow.  That's a plot line that needs to be joined.  Angel listening to chaos means that the story isn't necessarily selling Angel as the poor hero who just had to become Twilgiht to save the world.  And who knows, maybe they plucked the version of Angel who'd been through the crushing defeat because they knew that was the version that would most easily be their patsy?  Could work.  But time travel and alternative universes need to be employed with care.  Makes me nervous, in a grumpy sort of a way. 

[identity profile] aycheb.livejournal.com 2010-08-29 06:42 pm (UTC)(link)
he was given a clear mission in regard to Buffy - help her reach the next plane, together create a new world, and end all suffering
"He was given" ergo this reflects the ideology of the dogmasters but not necessarily Angel's. Riley accepted the mission to place the world over the girl but was still working for the girl. We don't yet know whether there's a distinction between what Angel's would-be masters thought he was doing and what he thought he was doing or whether either of them screwed it up entirely. However, in this instance none of that is particularly relevant because the question is what Buffy thought Angel was doing and the alternative to "I have randomly turned into a good old, evil because I'm evil, tie-metropolis-to-the-tracks, OOC (which everybody criticising this storyline seems to agree on) comic book villain" that Angel gives her is not that he was killing thousands to save billions. He denies that he's killed anyone (as far as we know and certainly as far as Buffy knows that's literally true). He's pointed out that governments and demons were hellbent on slayercide with or without his involvement and claims that while he hasn't been able to stop them, he has diverted them so that far fewer slayers were killed than would have been without him. He's not (at this point) claiming to have killed to create a better world, he's claiming not to have been able to save everyone. The while I push side of the equation hardly seems to register with her it gets lost in the argument that her powers don't come from her dead.

To sum it up, you think that Buffy's mind was completely clear when she stopped attacking Angel. She stopped because she believed Angel when he said that he did it for her own good. She made the decision to have sex with Angel on her own free will, because was happy to leave her worries behind and enjoy herself.
I would phrase it quite differently. Buffy stopped because she believed that Angel had not undergone some random personality transplant and that he had intended if not good then least worst as far as he was able. As had she when she changed the world. Her good seemed less at issue than everyone else's good, she raged sat him for her girl's deaths and putting "us" through hell. She's less self involved than in the days when "nobody messes with my boyfriend" was her sine qua non. She made the decision to kiss Angel and follow where that led not our of heedless hedonism but because there was nothing else she could do for her people. She'd failed them utterly, they were dying because of her. There was a chance Angel was right and if he wasn't she'd got nothing.

[identity profile] norwie2010.livejournal.com 2010-08-29 07:16 pm (UTC)(link)
While Your reading makes the most sense (if there is a narrative to follow still left) i do take into account the massive disconnect of large parts of the readership (and i'm not taking into account the handful who think that Buffy/Angel sex is the best thing eva! or the other handful who think it is the most horrid thing eva!) since the Meltzer arc. And no, i'm not looking at this corner of fandom. So, either the story is told in a very bad way or the characterization is bad. Either way, there is a problem. Because, You are "a handful" only, too.

Before #33 i predicted that Buffy would take a "timeout" of her daily (job) worries and actually try out the peaceful existence of (suburban housewife) bliss.

And despite of my intellectual knowledge of this twist in the story it STILL kicked me out of the narrative.

[identity profile] aycheb.livejournal.com 2010-08-29 07:41 pm (UTC)(link)
I can only read for myself and this is the reading I came up with before having any idea what fandom thought. It didn't kick me out of the story. It's still a story I want to see the end of, one that takes me out of myself and into Buffy's point of view, one that makes me feel her despair and smile with relief and recognition when she once again rejects doing what she's meant to do.

I make no claim to be any judge of whether a story is being told in a very bad way but the sense I get from your comment that these things can be determined by some kind of fandom committee feels off in some way. I don't know why so many have such a massive disconnect. I don't know what proportion of those who feel that way have actually read the text they feel disconnected from with any great attention. I do know of several who also claim to find comic books and graphic novel a difficult medium to parse out a message from. I also remember similar disconnected responses to seasons 5, 6 and 7 of the TV show. It may come down to fans (and I am one) being passionate about stories and with passion goes a certain "it's either very good or it's horrid."

[identity profile] norwie2010.livejournal.com 2010-08-29 07:55 pm (UTC)(link)
Well, i formulated badly. And, You are right: statistics alone seldom prove anything. So, my bad for falling victim to mind poisoning. But, i want to say (again) that i'm not of the mind of "it's either very good or it's horrid."

Still, for me it is a worrying sign if a story - despite my general consent and anticipation to where it is headed - is able to kick me out. I'll leave out the anonymous masses of fans, only speaking for myself (this time ;-)).

I get what You're saying and i follow Your reading (whenever i'm able to concentrate on the narrative, again) - but the disconnect is still there. And, that never happened before with BtVS. So, probably it is just me parting ideas with BtVS. Well, no, not really. As i wanted to see the story we are seemingly getting. But the way it is presented is offputting, to say the least.

[identity profile] aycheb.livejournal.com 2010-08-29 10:03 pm (UTC)(link)
Gob was I being snotty in my previous - haven't posted in a while and am internet rusty. I'm trying to think of disconnects with the text on TV and and can only think of episodes I thought were crap like Gone and OAFA or New Moon Rising. There's been those with the comics although really only Safe hits those lows for me. But I did get a disconnect in the middle of reading #2 with the Xander dream thing, a big "O Noes, this can't be happening." It made me flip back and forward through the comic wildly until I realised the very fact I could do this was new and exhilarating and, although it had been a while the best thing about Joss writing Buffy again was not feeling safe. Ans so I stopped worrying and learned to love (the war). Nothing else has been so disorientating since.