maggie2: (Default)
maggie2 ([personal profile] maggie2) wrote2009-01-29 08:21 pm

Buffy’s Dance with the Vamps: Why Spike’s Soul Matters


In response to some comments on my previous post, here's a four-page essay on the role Spike's soul plays in Buffy's story. 

 

In the comments to my last post on multiple motivations, there was a lot of discussion about whether Spike’s soul matters, and if so how. The conversations are mostly about how Spike’s soul fits in with his own journey, but the dilemma comes with trying to figure out what the “soul” means in the ‘verse as a whole. I’ve tried for a long time to come up with one theory of the soul, but I can’t find one that does justice to both Angel’s story and to Spike’s. This is not to say that the individual stories aren’t compelling and insightful. But the “soul” seemed to shift around to fit the demands of the story at the moment. Sidebar: and let’s just get one thing off the table for good:  whatever it is that “soul” means in the ‘verse, it has nothing to do with what a Christian would call a soul. But that’s a topic for another day.

 

 

[livejournal.com profile] candleanfeather observes in a comment that there are often ambiguities and tensions that crop up when we try to reconcile the multiple stories being told in the ‘verse.  I agree with her, and would argue that it’s a feature and not a bug. Sidebar: another story for another day.   But while I don’t think there’s one unifying principle that picks up all the details for all the stories in a way that is coherent, I do think there’s one primary story which actually does make sense, which drives the plotting involved with souls. And that’s the story of what the vampires with souls mean to Buffy and her journey. Cause as Joss has said, the question you always have to start with is “what’s the Buffy of it”.

 

The Buffy of the Vampire with Souls: The Basic Theory

 

Buffy is a human being who has been endowed with special powers that are at least associated with the demonic. One of her central projects in BtVS is coming to terms with the two sides of herself, finding a way to reconcile them. One way to dramatize Buffy’s internal struggle to reconcile the demonic with the human is to involve her in romances with creatures that have similar struggles. And what could serve that purpose better than a vampire with a soul, a demon who struggles with his humanity the way Buffy struggles with her demonic power? Enter Angel.

 

In falling in love with Angel, Buffy is falling in love with the singular creature in her acquaintance who has both demonic and human forces within him. His soul tames the demon and allows her to enter into a relationship with the demonic, which is a vehicle for coming to terms with the demonic within her. The demonic here is often understood as purely evil, but it’s clear that a domesticated version of it is good: it’s a source of strength and power and sheer exuberance. Sidebar: Angel is the antithesis of exuberant, of course; but check out Angelus!. When Buffy attempts an actual union with Angel, however, things fall apart in a devastating way. It turns out that for Angel, the price of loving Buffy is losing his own soul.   Buffy’s first experience with trying to be in relationship with the demonic is traumatic and deeply scarring. After a yearlong coda wherein Buffy and Angel try to pretend that they can be together without being together, they separate, and Buffy retreats from the demonic side of herself. (Bad experiences with Faith are a part of this movement).

 

Buffy’s next move is to ignore the demonic side of herself by entering into a romantic relationship with Riley. Riley’s synthetic superpower makes this possible, I think, but the relationship is never fully satisfying to Buffy who needs to make peace with the genuine demonic within her. Two things happen that spell an end to Buffy’s relationship with Riley. First, the big spell at the end of season 4 unleashes the primitive slayer basically forcing Buffy to reengage with the project of coming to terms with the demonic origins of her own power. Second, Riley loses the synthetic power-up and ceases to be able to engage that side of Buffy in any way. Buffy has to stop pretending that she’s just a human, and that means she has to risk going into the dark, a journey which begins not remotely coincidentally in an episode called Into the Woods. Her refusal to engage and reconcile herself with her demonic side, which is the source of her power, but also a potential source of exuberance, is a big part of her growing death wish, I think.

 

But Buffy is not yet out of options. Spike is there, waiting for her in the dark. Now, Spike does NOT have a soul and is therefore NOT a fit companion for Buffy. What he does have, though, is some impulse towards the human in his demon. The judge remarked on that back in Surprise; it has been given room to grow by virtue of the chip which hindered Spike’s unfettered expression of his demonic self; and it has now manifested itself in the form of Spike’s love for Buffy. But though the demon in Spike is inclining towards the human, the absence of the soul still means he can’t mirror Buffy properly. It’s not unlike the way that Riley’s synthetic demonic powers were insufficient to mirror Buffy’s genuinely demonic side. Buffy is nonetheless drawn to Spike, but the result is that she is drawn further towards the demonic in herself, and risks losing her human side altogether.   But where Angel’s love for Buffy cost him his soul, it turns out that Spike’s love for Buffy ultimately drives him to seek a soul.  

 

This is huge. Where Buffy’s first effort to enter into her necessary dance with the dark ended in disaster, her second (reluctantly entered into) dance with the dark ends up with her having inspired a vampire to the unprecedented act of seeking a soul.   Painful and ugly as their relationship often  was, Spike’s quest for the soul turns Buffy’s dangerous dance with the dark into something quite beautiful. As a result of it, she now has a partner who can be the perfect mirror for her. He’s a vampire with a soul, but unlike Angel he’s the vampire who wanted the soul.   Buffy’s reconciliation with Spike over the course of season seven reflects her own internal reconciliation with her own power.  By the end, she and Spike have become very close, and she has become very confident and sure of herself as a human who can exercise demonic powers without being overwhelmed by them. It is only at this stage in her journey that Buffy can think about sharing her powers with others, and it’s no coincidence that Buffy comes to possess the scythe which is the vehicle for spreading her powers with the aid of the strength Spike gave her (End of Days).   Spike’s quest for the soul is an essential moment in Buffy’s story.

 

Some Further Thoughts

 

1. Notice that Angel, the vampire who was cursed with a soul that his demonic self utterly loathes, serves as Buffy’s mirror during a stage in her journey when she regards her own calling as a slayer as a curse. In addition to the fact that she literally cannot be united with Angel without unleashing evil upon the world, Buffy needs to transcend Angel if she is ever to get to a stage where she can regard her slayer calling as a gift and not a curse or a burden. Bangel just is not a possible long run outcome on this account. Not without something earth shattering that would induce Angelus to actually seek a soul himself. Angel’s true story, which is now (appropriately) distinct from Buffy’s is about how one comes to terms with being human when one’s deepest nature is in rebellion against that project.   Whether this is even possible remains an open question.

 

2. Spike’s acquisition of the soul is in service to Buffy’s story. But in terms of his own story it is also a good thing. As I argued above, there was always an inclination to the human present in Spike, and with the soul he steps into the full realization of that yearning.  At the end of season 5, we see that Spike has come to see, even without the soul, that he aspires to be at least treated like a man. The acquisition of a soul which allows him to enter into an even deeper relationship with the human side of himself is just a fulfillment of that aspiration.

 

3.  Because Spike has been such an essential part of Buffy’s story, we need to know how this relationship resolved in order to understand where Buffy is at.   Does she still think that she loves Angel more? If so, she hasn’t embraced her demonic side as well as she might have, because this would represent a yearning to be with someone who has a big rift between his demonic side and his human side.  Or does the apparent lack of peace Buffy is currently suffering reflect the way things finally resolved between them when Spike returned from the dead?   The Buffy we saw at the end of The Chosen could have been done with this part of her journey. The Buffy we see now is not nearly so obviously done with that part of her journey. So what happened? We need to know. This is the second biggest reason why I think it would be strange if Joss didn’t tell us more about Spike in season 8. Sidebar: the first biggest reason is that he’d have closed out the story in a few bubbles if it were really over in his mind.

 

4. As should be obvious, Spike’s acquisition of the soul is NOT a weak echo of Angel’s story, but rather is the story redone in the right key. Buffy doesn’t need a demon cursed with a soul; she needs a demon who fought for one.  

 

5. A good deal of the angst of Spuffy in season five and especially season six is because in the context of this framework things couldn’t work between Buffy and Spike until Spike had a soul. But it’s also the case that there’s an extra helping of angst because Buffy is working out her trauma with Angel in the context of her relationship with Spike.   It would take a lot of space to elaborate on this, but a lot of the abuse Buffy heaps upon Spike strikes me as a projection of her anger at Angel onto Spike. I think that’s part of why emotionally, Buffy’s reconciliation with Spike serves also to heal her long-standing wounds from the debacle with Angel. Spike has given Buffy a great deal, including absorbing a lot of the suffering that was really due to Angel and not him. I think that’s intentional. Spike has made a huge gift to Buffy, sacrificing his whole self. Joss’s choice to let him die apparently in the full belief that his love was not returned (despite the fact that he’s absorbed the anger and pain caused by Angel) just underscores the gratuitous nature of what Spike has done for Buffy.   Spike is a big hero here. Indeed, instead of complaining that Spike has been given short shrift by Whedon, the more live concern strikes me as being whether or not Spike’s role ends up outshining Buffy’s to the detriment of whatever feminist message the show is supposed to be conveying. 

 

6. The standard story that we get from interviews with Whedon, other writers, and Marsters is that Spike was supposed to be killed off in season 2; was brought back in season 4 to take up the snarky truth-telling position vacated by Cordelia; and then (presumably because of the character’s popularity) got sucked into the role of being Buffy’s major romantic partner. That might well be true. But if you take this story that I’ve just told and read through from the very beginning you’ll find a shocking amount of supporting detail. Angelus as having no humanity in contrast to Spike’s humanity is established early on. Buffy’s insight into this is established as early as Lie to Me. There’s a long-standing sexual tension between the two, both in how the actors respond to one another and in things like their mutual expression of preference when it comes to who they want to fight (What’s My Line). [I’ve read recently that for years Jane Espenson had a note taped to her wall that said that Buffy has sex dreams about Spike.] In season four, there is an awful lot of detail that could be marshaled in support of the argument that Riley was always going to be an inadequate solution to Buffy’s problem and that Spike was going to end up being the answer no matter how unlikely that seemed to be on the surface. One example of many is Something Blue when it is exactly Buffy’s fear of being attracted to the dark Spike that moves her from utterly indifferent to Riley to thinking that’s a direction she wants to go. I’m not going to say that this story was planned from the get go. But I am saying that you can read the whole show as if it was planned from the get go. However that came about, the results are pretty cool.  And if this is how Joss treats a character he doesn’t like, then I’m really glad that he didn’t like Spike.


ext_15169: Self-portrait (Modesty Blaise)

[identity profile] speakr2customrs.livejournal.com 2009-01-30 01:57 am (UTC)(link)
Very insightful.

[identity profile] ms-scarletibis.livejournal.com 2009-01-30 02:04 am (UTC)(link)
[I’ve read recently that for years Jane Espenson had a note taped to her wall that said that Buffy has sex dreams about Spike.]
That makes a lot of sense, and adds to the whole "protesting too much" we get in s4 and s5.

One example of many is Something Blue when it is exactly Buffy’s fear of being attracted to the dark Spike that moves her from utterly indifferent to Riley to thinking that’s a direction she wants to go.
This too feeds into the "protesting too much--flee in the opposite direction out of desperation" deal.

Also, I don't remember where I read it, but for a show that didn't know what they were doing with Spike in s4, it's pretty interesting that we got "I Will Remember You" and "Something Blue" on the same night, where Angel has oodles of sex with Buffy and rejects that reality, and Spike gets the deep romantic love in SB and embraces it fully (an inverse of the two actual relationships--Angel got one night and a near three year romantic love, and Spike got one night of "being close" and oodles of sex). Another inverse upon many that was established early on.

Great insights.

[identity profile] gabrielleabelle.livejournal.com 2009-01-30 02:14 am (UTC)(link)
You speak pretty words.

*Bookmarked for safe-keeping*

[identity profile] annegables.livejournal.com 2009-01-30 02:51 am (UTC)(link)
I really like the insights you show here and the comparison of her relationships. I have always felt that each of her relationships were showing a different need in her that had to be filled until she could move on.

I do not believe that she could never have a relationship with Angel again. They would actually have a lot more in common now than they ever had before. It would, however, be a hugely different relationship than the one they had previously. But, the same would apply to Spike, so there we go.
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[personal profile] next_to_normal 2009-01-30 02:52 am (UTC)(link)
we got "I Will Remember You" and "Something Blue" on the same night

Not quite. They aired close to one another, but "I Will Remember You" was the week before "Something Blue" (which makes sense if you think about it, since in SB, Buffy is talking about having just seen Angel. That wouldn't be possible if the episodes were shown back to back, as BtVS came on first).

[identity profile] ms-scarletibis.livejournal.com 2009-01-30 02:57 am (UTC)(link)
I meant back to back (in the sense that one week ended on IWRY, and the following week opened with SB).

[identity profile] ms-scarletibis.livejournal.com 2009-01-30 02:59 am (UTC)(link)
I do not believe that she could never have a relationship with Angel again. They would actually have a lot more in common now than they ever had before.

Yeah, but it'd be quite the downer, wouldn't it? One huge angst fest. They never made each other happy or joked around. The only incident where they do is in "Chosen," and that's cause Angel's talking about Spike. There's no balance with Buffy and Angel.
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[personal profile] next_to_normal 2009-01-30 03:00 am (UTC)(link)
Very interesting analysis. I actually don't think it's all that hard to reconcile Angel's and Spike's soul stories, but that's a whole separate discussion. Regardless, it makes a lot of sense when you tie it to Buffy's character development, and I can see how, based on this analysis, you expect Spike to show up in season 8 to complete Buffy's arc. I still don't think it's going to happen, though.

But since you've included Riley in your analysis, I'm curious what you think of Buffy's relationship with Satsu, and how that fits into her acceptance (or lack thereof) of her demonic side. Here is someone who is not just a mirror, but actually in the same situation as Buffy. Does that show further acceptance, or is it a step backwards?

[identity profile] menomegirl.livejournal.com 2009-01-30 03:07 am (UTC)(link)
Very insightful meta, even if I do disagree with you some on the Riley thing. In any given discussion on Buffy, he always gets dismissed too easily.

[identity profile] 2maggie2.livejournal.com 2009-01-30 03:11 am (UTC)(link)
Thanks! In this framework, Riley can only be a transition figure. That doesn't mean there can't be other readings which give his story a brighter spin.

[identity profile] 2maggie2.livejournal.com 2009-01-30 03:15 am (UTC)(link)
Good question about Satsu, and I'll have to think about it to see if I can come up with anything major. My only observations so far are that they do drop in a fair number of small comparisons between her and Spike (rude girl/punkish; she's the devoted one as was Spike; her best co-warrior; one other thing that I forget right now). We don't yet know where it's going. And I don't know what to do with the fact that Buffy really is just dabbling here. She was much more invested in Spike even when she hated him. Is that because of differences between Satsu and Spike; a change in where Buffy's at; or just a reflection of the fact that Buffy just isn't gay? No clue.

I'm out on a limb in the prediction about season 8 and Spike. We'll see what happens! (If I'm wrong, I'll try to be gracious in defeat.)

[identity profile] 2maggie2.livejournal.com 2009-01-30 03:17 am (UTC)(link)
On this reading she really can't be with Angel. He's cursed with the soul and at odds with himself. Unless Angelus can be made to get on board with the soul; or maybe if Buffy comes apart enough that she's divided between the human and her demonic powers within herself.

Of course, there are other readings possible, and it could well be that on those readings Angel and Buffy belong together. I'm attached to this one though, so I'd be pretty squicked. But that certainly doesn't mean that other people have to be in the same boat as me!!

[identity profile] 2maggie2.livejournal.com 2009-01-30 03:18 am (UTC)(link)
Ooh, thanks!!

[identity profile] 2maggie2.livejournal.com 2009-01-30 03:20 am (UTC)(link)
Macha (can be found at Tea at the Ford) has meta about the three episodes: Pangs-IWRY-Something Blue. In Pangs, Spike wants in, but Angel hanging around outside NOT asking to come in. In IWRY, Angel doubles down on wanting to stay outside (however nobly you read his intentions). In Something Blue, Spike doubles down (in a magically induced way) on his desire to really come in, thereby setting up the contrast with Angel.

If it's an accident, it's a pretty accident.

[identity profile] 2maggie2.livejournal.com 2009-01-30 03:21 am (UTC)(link)
Thanks!
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[personal profile] next_to_normal 2009-01-30 03:37 am (UTC)(link)
Yeah, I can kind of seen Satsu going in a lot of directions. In one sense, I could see it as a retreat - she's gone back to humans, instead of fully engaging with the demonic side, making Satsu kind of like a female version of Riley.

With all the parallels to Spike, I thought they might be trying to make it a "do over" - where Buffy does the right thing instead of making the same mistakes over again. And I do think she did better this time around, but Satsu still seems to be hurt (though I think she shares the blame more than Spike did), so I don't know.

It could have been a symbol of total acceptance, had they gone the route where Buffy actually loved Satsu. Since they're both Slayers with the same demonic side, it would indicate that she is finally able to love herself. But the fact that it was just a "fling" or whatever - like you say, is that a statement about Buffy not being able to love that way, or just Buffy not being gay?

To be honest, I'm not totally sure if we should give Satsu any more consideration than you'd give, say, Scott Hope or Parker, but since it's her only relationship in season 8 so far, it seems like it ought to be significant. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

One other thought that occurred to me - how does Buffy's cookie dough speech play into this? The metaphor is pretty silly, but I do think Buffy has a good point about finding out who she is when she's not defined by who she's dating (or dated, since I think the shadow of Angel hung over her even when she was single). Spike getting his soul and sacrificing himself is what frees her from that shadow. So it's interesting that you still see Buffy's relationship with Spike as vital to understanding her character, even though she's supposed to be independent at this point. Does that independence factor in at all, or is it just the nature of the analysis that Buffy has to be partnered with someone?

[identity profile] menomegirl.livejournal.com 2009-01-30 03:38 am (UTC)(link)
I would like to add that I agreed with everything else. :)

[identity profile] 2maggie2.livejournal.com 2009-01-30 04:33 am (UTC)(link)
I personally kind of think that Buffy/Satsu is setting up for development of the relationship between Willow and Buffy, but I'm awful at forecasting so that's probably wrong. A not related question: have you seen the preview pages of #22?

Saying that Spike has helped her reconcile with her demon side doesn't mean she's all baked!! So she could totally sit there and say that she has to figure out who she is (maybe even more so now that she's just now getting past the Angel trauma and so on).

I don't write fanfiction, but if I were to write about Buffy going forward, it seems to me that I'd have to know what Buffy knew about Spike in order to be able to understand the character I was writing about. She spent virtually all of the series thinking Angel was The One. Is she over that? Does she now think Spike is The One? (There's room for her to have had an epiphany in the hellmouth). Or was she over Angel, happy to have loved Spike, but not in a long-haul kind of a way? Having answered those questions, we have the further question of whether she knows about Spike. If she doesn't know, there's a shoe to drop. Regardless of whether she was in love with him, he mattered -- it'd have to impact her to know he was back. If she does know, what does she know and how exactly did it come to be the case that she's sitting in Scotland feeling lonely? Is it because she feels rejected about Spike? Or because she realized that she did love him, but not that way and is carrying on. The answer to these questions changes the flavor to that scene of her missing home, for example; or how we understand her reaction to Ethan calling her pet; or the nature of her fear about knocking Xander's head off. You're the writer: wouldn't you have to know these things to know how to write a post-Chosen Buffy? And if you need to know them as a writer, don't we need to know them as readers?

lynnenne: (connor shanshu by kamilla)

[personal profile] lynnenne 2009-01-30 04:34 am (UTC)(link)
Buffy’s reconciliation with Spike over the course of season seven reflects her own internal reconciliation with her own power.

I agree, and I've always read Spike as a sort of shadow-self for Buffy (in the same way that Faith was in S3).

I'm suspicious of the party line that Spike was intended to be killed off. I think the writing staff adopted that line at the beginning, in case Marsters didn't work out or the fans hated him, and then just ran with it. But I suspect that Joss always intended for Spike to turn into a shadow-self for Buffy. I mean, he named the character Spike. It's an obvious phallic reference, intended to highlight the character's role as the embodiment of masculine violence - the same way that Buffy is the embodiment of feminine strength. (Also, eerily similar to the name "Pike," Buffy's cohort and presumed romantic interest in the movie.)

Angel’s true story, which is now (appropriately) distinct from Buffy’s is about how one comes to terms with being human when one’s deepest nature is in rebellion against that project.

I think "Not Fade Away" illustrates that Angel has reconciled the two sides of his nature. The episode begins with him signing away his once-coveted humanity; it ends with him using his vampiric nature to drink from Hamilton, steal his power and win the fight against him. It also ends with a not-so-subtle declaration that Connor, not the Shanshu, is where Angel's humanity and future really lies:

CONNOR: "They'll destroy you."
ANGEL: "As long as you're okay, they can't."

One of the many, many things I love about the end of Angel is that it shows Angel embracing both his demon and his human sides. One helps him win the fight; the other gives him something worth fighting for.

Interesting thoughts. Thanks for posting.

[identity profile] 2maggie2.livejournal.com 2009-01-30 04:42 am (UTC)(link)
Oh, it's great to meet someone who's suspicious of that party line! Because when I watch season 2 it's hard to think they didn't have some idea about the role Spike was ultimately going to play in her life.

I think you can argue that Angel's human side has embraced the demon side in NFA. But I've seen no hint at all that Angelus would want the soul back if Angel ever got unensouled. So the demon is emphatically not down with the human part, and that's what I was talking about.
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[personal profile] next_to_normal 2009-01-30 04:56 am (UTC)(link)
A not related question: have you seen the preview pages of #22?

I think I have... is that the one with Kennedy and Satsu?

Saying that Spike has helped her reconcile with her demon side doesn't mean she's all baked!!

No, that's not what I meant. I meant that the Angel/Spike inversion of losing/gaining a soul is what frees her from the burden of her relationship with Angel. That allows her to begin the baking process, finding out who she is as an independent woman, instead of defining herself by the men in her life. It's not the end of it where she's all baked. But it seemed like you felt the need to bring Spike back into the picture to resolve her outstanding issues, so the question is, does she really have independence yet, or are we still defining her by her relationship to Spike?

You're the writer: wouldn't you have to know these things to know how to write a post-Chosen Buffy?

Yes, definitely, but the thing about fanfic is that there's no one right answer. As the writer, you get to make up the answers yourself. :) Especially in a case like this, where we don't know the canon answer, but even if we did, there's no reason I can't write a post-Chosen fic that goes off in a different direction. How I would answer those questions would depend on what kind of story I wanted to tell.

As a reader of the comics, however, you want to know the one right answer (meaning the canon answer), so you know how to interpret what you're reading. But, as we've seen, Joss doesn't always give that to us.

[identity profile] ms-scarletibis.livejournal.com 2009-01-30 05:43 am (UTC)(link)
o the question is, does she really have independence yet, or are we still defining her by her relationship to Spike?

Buffy might be.

We don't know what she knows about Spike and Angel's team (I assume she does know because one, I don't think Andrew could really keep that secret, and two, the threesome fantasy she had of herself and Spike at the beginning of the comics...I don't know, I guess I just don't see someone imagining a threesome of one guy who's allegedly dead, even if he is your ex. It's kind of ooky IMHO). Even if she doesn't know, the fact that Spike essentially chose to die instead of leave with her, and not believe her "I love you," can't really be so great to someone who has abandonment issues. And if she does know that Spike was alive, and decided to not come find her, and more importantly, decided to stay with Angel no less, who Spike "hates" (I put that in quotes cause I'm sure Buffy would see it that way, though that isn't the case), that doesn't say very good things about her. And though this is all from a potentially selfish point of view, it's one that makes sense (to me).

That would explain the experimentation, because human or vampire--soulless or souled, she can't seem to keep a man. Or maybe Joss just thought it would heighten his whole "girl power" thing by having her sleep with one. At any rate, if there were to be a slayer equal for Buffy, it'd have been Faith and not Satsu, who hasn't been in the game a fraction as long as they have. I just don't see "slayer status" meaning equal. If that's the case, if it weren't for the spell in "Chosen," she never would have found an equal in her life (cept for Faith).

[identity profile] 2maggie2.livejournal.com 2009-01-30 05:46 am (UTC)(link)
I always like exchanging thoughts with you!

Yeah, #22 is the one of Kennedy and Satsu. Satsu seems to have a bit of an axe to grind on where she is with Buffy.

To get to the other two points, it helps to take the second first:

My point about whether you need to answer these questions as an author of fanfic wasn't that Joss should supply them so you'll know where she is so you can write about her in fanfic; it's that Joss is also a writer continuing her story -- so if you need to answer those questions (however you choose to), surely Joss also has to answer them. For the reason you say: you need to know the answers because it has an impact on the kind of story you are going to tell. Well, Joss has decided what story to tell. Presumably that means he's answered these questions for himself. And since you agree that the kind of story you tell depends on the answers, then Joss knows that for us to understand the story he's telling we need to know how he answers the questions. Which is why I think he's going to tell us.

We can do a compare and contrast. We know exactly where Spike is on all of this stuff. He delayed going back to see Buffy, because it would have seemed anti-climactic to her. I think this loads the dice in favor of the claim that he didn't believe Buffy, or that if he did he doesn't think it's the big kind of love. However, he did go and try to see her in TGIQ, with the self-protective excuse of being in town on business anyway. There, Andrew sure as heck implied that Buffy knew he was back, "loves" him, but is off with the Immortal and might catch up with him (or Angel) somewhere down the road. From Spike's reaction it's a pretty safe bet that he thinks that Buffy knows he's back and is acting exactly how he'd expect her to act given that he doesn't think she loves him. Be that as it may, from Spike's POV the ball is in her court. He thinsk she knows he's back. He thinks she's told him to move on. It's up to her to decide if she's going to try to catch him down the road. So we see him trying to move on. He has started the project of fighting the good fight because he wants to. He's involved in a fabric of friendships (or at least quasi-friendships) at W&H. He's fooled around with Spider, but isn't in love with her. (But is treating her better than he treated Harmony). And he has apparently (and highly inexplicably) zoomed from thinking of Fred as a dear friend who one should NOT sacrifice thousands of others to save, to thinking she's his #1 priority in hell. All of that is important as we try to understand who Spike is.

Buffy is the center of Joss's story and he can't be arsed to tell us even a small fraction of that sort of information? Nope. He's holding it back because we're still supposed to be in a mystery about exactly who this Buffy is and what's motivating her. If not, you are right about season 8 being so awful and Joss has obviously had a lobotomy because he hasn't got the first clue about how to write a good story, let alone one that has the trademark Whedon stamp wherein characters are marked by their histories and can't be understood apart from their histories.

Back to cookie dough: Part of why I want to know the resolution of Spike/Buffy is exactly because I want a sense of how free she is of the past. And if it turns out that the answer is yes, she is indeed past all these issues, she's still a human being which means that it helps to understand her past in order to understand her present. Being independent doesn't mean that we get to be so entirely unaffected by others that we can be fully understood by people who have no idea about the status of our relationships with people who have been pretty darned significant to us.

BTW, I attach an extremely small probability to the possibility that Spike will be part of an on-going romantic story with Buffy. For what it's worth. I do think Spuffy is over, except for the part where we're told how it ended.

[identity profile] kseenaa.livejournal.com 2009-01-30 06:54 am (UTC)(link)
Wow. That was very interesting. :-)
ext_15169: Self-portrait (Default)

[identity profile] speakr2customrs.livejournal.com 2009-01-30 08:47 am (UTC)(link)
There can be no other readings which give Riley's story a brighter spin unless it is by totally overlooking the utter, utter, wrongness of the relationship between Riley and Buffy. I've never known if Joss was simply oblivious to the total impropriety of a TA shagging a girl whose papers he grades or if it was a subtle way of indicating that Riley was a villain without any grasp of morality. Recent developments in S8 imply that in fact it was the 'He's a villain!' scenario, just a little too subtle for most viewers.

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