#36: Initial reactions
Sep. 1st, 2010 01:14 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
maggie2Full spoilers below the cut. Read at your own risk.
There's a recap up at Whedonesque,reposted by![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
sueworld2003 . I will take up the points in the order they are raised by the issue.
1. Angel's story. It was both a shoutout to LOST -- the plane Angel saves is an Oceanic airline --, and I'm guessing Superman (he uses "ma'am and is told that comes with the superpowers). I suppose I'll have to do some superman wiki at some point. In any case, the voice behind the dog becomes a voice behind a passenger, and she tells Angel that the superpowers he has just landed are a reward, one that makes Shanshu look like a sack o' crap. Passenger-dog gives Angel big thanks, and not for saving the plane.
The thanks and the 'reward' read to me like they come right out of Lilah's playbook from Home. The aspect of Shanshu that's a 'reward' is becoming a real boy; and Angel is now further away from that than ever. And since the world ends up destroyed as a result of Angel's powers whoever is happy about it can't be one of the good guys.
It's still hard to see how this keys into Buffy's own power-up. We've gotten such a jumble of explanations for what's going on. Giles and Willow seemed to think it was to do with Buffy. This is to do with Angel. So in the cosmic scheme of things, what exactly was the first domino here?
2. Spike comes in through a dimensional hole similar to the one Angle came in through. Instead of super-powers, Spike has a super ship, and is glorious leader to a bunch of space bugs. Looks like he was in the middle of some kind of fight before he got pulled to the dimension. And his first task back 'home' is to find out what's been going on. That puts paid to the speculation that Spike's a bad vampire for having known all along about the world upside down and not having done anything about it. He tracks down info and comes to help as quickly as he can. The other good news is that as Spike reads about Buffy-the-terrorist, he doesn't seem all emotionally fraught. This is a good thing given what follows. Spike's established a life for himself and has moved on a bit.
3. Having crashed in, Spike gets folks boarding his ship while Angel and Buffy fight demons. And here we get a 100% validation of Bangel. Buffy says she doesn't trust Angel, but he has her heart. Angel is worried that Buffy might wish Spike had shown up before the space boink, but Buffy seems perfectly happy that he didn't. She's had the bestest wierdest best day of her life. She can't describe our pronounce what he's done for her. He gave her perfection and gave it up -- he's not just the love of her life, he's the guy she wants to spend her life with. Too bad about the timing, he's going to have to go. But Angel says he'll find Buffy soon, and Buffy says he'd better. Cookies baked.
So that's the text. I could do my usual riff about how OTT this is, but who knows. I don't think we're going to go with glow juice or anything else whacked out like that. I think this is Buffy. And she's not the Buffy I really want to know. It's an interesting move to reunite the epic true love lovers in a way that makes them both look so terrible. They've destroyed the world, and it's Buffy's best day ever. Can we put that on her tombstone beneath "she saved the world a lot"? I'll have to think more about what I think about Buffy in all of this, or what Joss is going for. Is it just a simple story of personal happiness is 100% at odds with what's good for the world? There's something skew about that. Or will it get upended going forward? At present I find myself not caring all that much because of the next point
4. Buffy has known all along that Spike is back. She hasn't contacted him. It's not for the Spuffy-fic staple line about her being hurt or mad. She was just too busy. She thanks him for being crazy studly saving them from the uber vamps and interrupts him before he even has a chance to spit out a you're welcome, going on to the need to know what's going on now.
Well we could get wrinkles on this, I suppose. But pretty much this Buffy is why I call myself post-Spuffy. To be a bit personal about my own emotional investment in this story, my Spuffiness wore away the last few years because I just couldn't quite believe that Buffy really meant it in the hellmouth. If we take this as written, with no layers hidden away underneath, she obviously didn't mean it. This is the first time Buffy has clapped eyes on Spike since Chosen and she immediately whisked off to fight demons with Angel and tell him her cookies were baked. In my emotional zone this leads to stories in my head where Spike moves on or has moved on, and Buffy gets together with Angel, destroys the world and is pretty much miserable. Spike even gets in my line on this about how it wouldn't be Buffy if she weren't boinking the bad guy. It's an emotional place where Spike doesn't get what he wants but lives pretty well, and Buffy gets what she wants and is pretty miserable. The only difference is that this Buffy doesn't have the moral depth to be even emotionally conflicted -- she's destroyed the world with Angel and it's the best day of her life. That makes it even easier to say sayonara to Spuffy.
5. Happily Spike doesn't get all emo about any of this. He makes the one snark about Buffy stinking and boinking bad guys, but then he's right down to business.
6. Spike's news? More plotty mcplot bizarreness. This is all coming from some seed, back in the helllmouth. The seed of wonder. Sunnydale is the heart of all magic. It's built over a house of worship that got swallowed up by the earth. They are heading for the heart to get the seed from which all this comes, but which can some how stop all this. Maybe I'll get some thoughts about this going forward.
7. Willow briefly turns Angel into a frog, and the reason Buffy sends Angel away is because he'd be too distracting to everyone. Buffy does see that Angel has done a lot of damage and that people have good reason to be pissed at him. Still, it's her best day ever.
So for me the big question that has kept me invested in the comics is pretty much answered. Buffy didn't love Spike, at least not in any way that cashes out in actual behavior that could be called loving. I think now I can kick back and just read the rest as a more disinterested party. Unless Buffy's character is somehow salvaged here, Angel is more than welcome to her.
ETA: The blurb refers to Spike as a former vampire. This may be a misprint -- but I thought it was worth mentioning. We see him in space -- so if he's a former vampire, it may have happened on re-entry the way that Angel's powers did. But I'm still more incined to call it a misprint. Stay tuned for further developments....
ETA2: Further development -- it was a misprint. Spike's still a vampire.
There's a recap up at Whedonesque,reposted by
sueworld2003 . I will take up the points in the order they are raised by the issue.1. Angel's story. It was both a shoutout to LOST -- the plane Angel saves is an Oceanic airline --, and I'm guessing Superman (he uses "ma'am and is told that comes with the superpowers). I suppose I'll have to do some superman wiki at some point. In any case, the voice behind the dog becomes a voice behind a passenger, and she tells Angel that the superpowers he has just landed are a reward, one that makes Shanshu look like a sack o' crap. Passenger-dog gives Angel big thanks, and not for saving the plane.
The thanks and the 'reward' read to me like they come right out of Lilah's playbook from Home. The aspect of Shanshu that's a 'reward' is becoming a real boy; and Angel is now further away from that than ever. And since the world ends up destroyed as a result of Angel's powers whoever is happy about it can't be one of the good guys.
It's still hard to see how this keys into Buffy's own power-up. We've gotten such a jumble of explanations for what's going on. Giles and Willow seemed to think it was to do with Buffy. This is to do with Angel. So in the cosmic scheme of things, what exactly was the first domino here?
2. Spike comes in through a dimensional hole similar to the one Angle came in through. Instead of super-powers, Spike has a super ship, and is glorious leader to a bunch of space bugs. Looks like he was in the middle of some kind of fight before he got pulled to the dimension. And his first task back 'home' is to find out what's been going on. That puts paid to the speculation that Spike's a bad vampire for having known all along about the world upside down and not having done anything about it. He tracks down info and comes to help as quickly as he can. The other good news is that as Spike reads about Buffy-the-terrorist, he doesn't seem all emotionally fraught. This is a good thing given what follows. Spike's established a life for himself and has moved on a bit.
3. Having crashed in, Spike gets folks boarding his ship while Angel and Buffy fight demons. And here we get a 100% validation of Bangel. Buffy says she doesn't trust Angel, but he has her heart. Angel is worried that Buffy might wish Spike had shown up before the space boink, but Buffy seems perfectly happy that he didn't. She's had the bestest wierdest best day of her life. She can't describe our pronounce what he's done for her. He gave her perfection and gave it up -- he's not just the love of her life, he's the guy she wants to spend her life with. Too bad about the timing, he's going to have to go. But Angel says he'll find Buffy soon, and Buffy says he'd better. Cookies baked.
So that's the text. I could do my usual riff about how OTT this is, but who knows. I don't think we're going to go with glow juice or anything else whacked out like that. I think this is Buffy. And she's not the Buffy I really want to know. It's an interesting move to reunite the epic true love lovers in a way that makes them both look so terrible. They've destroyed the world, and it's Buffy's best day ever. Can we put that on her tombstone beneath "she saved the world a lot"? I'll have to think more about what I think about Buffy in all of this, or what Joss is going for. Is it just a simple story of personal happiness is 100% at odds with what's good for the world? There's something skew about that. Or will it get upended going forward? At present I find myself not caring all that much because of the next point
4. Buffy has known all along that Spike is back. She hasn't contacted him. It's not for the Spuffy-fic staple line about her being hurt or mad. She was just too busy. She thanks him for being crazy studly saving them from the uber vamps and interrupts him before he even has a chance to spit out a you're welcome, going on to the need to know what's going on now.
Well we could get wrinkles on this, I suppose. But pretty much this Buffy is why I call myself post-Spuffy. To be a bit personal about my own emotional investment in this story, my Spuffiness wore away the last few years because I just couldn't quite believe that Buffy really meant it in the hellmouth. If we take this as written, with no layers hidden away underneath, she obviously didn't mean it. This is the first time Buffy has clapped eyes on Spike since Chosen and she immediately whisked off to fight demons with Angel and tell him her cookies were baked. In my emotional zone this leads to stories in my head where Spike moves on or has moved on, and Buffy gets together with Angel, destroys the world and is pretty much miserable. Spike even gets in my line on this about how it wouldn't be Buffy if she weren't boinking the bad guy. It's an emotional place where Spike doesn't get what he wants but lives pretty well, and Buffy gets what she wants and is pretty miserable. The only difference is that this Buffy doesn't have the moral depth to be even emotionally conflicted -- she's destroyed the world with Angel and it's the best day of her life. That makes it even easier to say sayonara to Spuffy.
5. Happily Spike doesn't get all emo about any of this. He makes the one snark about Buffy stinking and boinking bad guys, but then he's right down to business.
6. Spike's news? More plotty mcplot bizarreness. This is all coming from some seed, back in the helllmouth. The seed of wonder. Sunnydale is the heart of all magic. It's built over a house of worship that got swallowed up by the earth. They are heading for the heart to get the seed from which all this comes, but which can some how stop all this. Maybe I'll get some thoughts about this going forward.
7. Willow briefly turns Angel into a frog, and the reason Buffy sends Angel away is because he'd be too distracting to everyone. Buffy does see that Angel has done a lot of damage and that people have good reason to be pissed at him. Still, it's her best day ever.
So for me the big question that has kept me invested in the comics is pretty much answered. Buffy didn't love Spike, at least not in any way that cashes out in actual behavior that could be called loving. I think now I can kick back and just read the rest as a more disinterested party. Unless Buffy's character is somehow salvaged here, Angel is more than welcome to her.
ETA: The blurb refers to Spike as a former vampire. This may be a misprint -- but I thought it was worth mentioning. We see him in space -- so if he's a former vampire, it may have happened on re-entry the way that Angel's powers did. But I'm still more incined to call it a misprint. Stay tuned for further developments....
ETA2: Further development -- it was a misprint. Spike's still a vampire.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
(no subject)
Date: 2010-09-01 06:03 pm (UTC)Which is basically the comic in its entirity.
Buffy has known all along that Spike is back. She hasn't contacted him. It's not for the Spuffy-fic staple line about her being hurt or mad. She was just too busy.
Thanks Joss! I mean, you know, for nothing. But, hey, he totally gave us everyone reacting to Spike having sought his own soul and stuff... off screen, and related to wet towels and with Giles trying to kill him (but not having tried to kill Angel. Curious that). And, you know, Joss made sure that Spike got a lot of credit for having sacrificed his life, what with Buffy smiling, and Angel saying Buffy did all the work, and people voting to have him exorcized so I guess nothing there too. But, hey, at least we get... er...his resurrection. Which was about Lindsey playing games with Angel's head.
Right. Thanks Joss. We can always depend on you for a payoff. ::eyeroll::
They've destroyed the world, and it's Buffy's best day ever
Don't you understand? They're special, special snowflakes. The most special snowflakes ever! Their love is epic and worth the destruction of the universe. Because they're special. Don't you know anything? [/snark]
Spike's news? More plotty mcplot bizarreness. This is all coming from some seed, back in the helllmouth. The seed of wonder. Sunnydale is the heart of all magic. It's built over a house of worship that got swallowed up by the earth. They are heading for the heart to get the seed from which all this comes, but which can some how stop all this. Maybe I'll get some thoughts about this going forward.
Just curious (but not really expecting an answer because, apparently, the comics are WYSIWYG that doesn't require things like plot, purpose, or answers.) But where did he get this info?
7. Willow briefly turns into a frog, and the reason Buffy sends Angel away is because he'd be too distracting to everyone
Okay, uh... what? I just... what? ::shakes head:: Twangel doesn't have any pertinent information to impart? Nothing from his
yearsmonths of plotting? No explanations to make? No exposition dump to let out? No Twangel reasoning to impart? Minions to call off? Anything? Anything at all> Anything, y'know... useful?Seriously, is this comic anything but a series of jumbled plot points?
This reminds me of a Dana Scully quote about the ridiculousness of Plan Nine from Outer Space.
Scully (to Mulder): You've seen this movie 42 times? Doesn't that make you sad? It makes me sad.
Perhaps Season 8 needs the sountrack of the SouthPark Mormon episode "dumb, da-dumb, dumb, dumb..."
Buffy didn't love Spike, at least not in any way that cashes out in actual behavior that could be called loving
When I was saying this a few years ago, I was being labelled a "Buffy hater" for it.
(no subject)
Date: 2010-09-01 06:08 pm (UTC)A lot of your other reaction I understand, but don't quite agree with. This issue has Buffy explicitly saying that Spike saved the world in Chosen (not some clean up thing or whatever). We've got Buffy pledging her heart to the guy she just destroyed the world with. That they are not sufficiently impressed with Spike's soul is not exactly a textual endorsement of his actual unimportance.
What got crushed here was any picture of the tender Buffy the more Buffy-centric Spuffies see.
(no subject)
Date: 2010-09-01 06:32 pm (UTC)In most those cases I wasn't referring to the comics specifically, just that it's been repeatedly the case that things that Spike fans were led believe (or at least wanted to believe), by earlier material, would be treated as a big deal...weren't. Or rather no one in Mutant Enemy ever paused the story telling to make a point of any of them, perennially leaving Spike fans wondering "But it was supposed to be a big deal? Why was it addressed? Why was it off screen?" (This was particularly the case in Season 7 where most of the stuff that had interested fandom never made its way onto the screen at all. The most cited example being that we never got to see anyone react to his having gone out and gotten a soul, except that minor "wet towels" scene several months later.
That we got no followup from "Chosen" is, sadly, rather typical. (Sorry, long term bitterista here. It kind of sucks to have worst suspicions confirmed. It's no big deal though.) I also feel for the Buffy-centrists who have great love for her as a character. She's not being handled well here, and that sucks even more.
(no subject)
Date: 2010-09-01 07:38 pm (UTC)We are in the same tribe then. It's no fun to be swiped with the "Buffy hater" brush.
(no subject)
Date: 2010-09-01 08:06 pm (UTC)We have nothing to lose but shitty comics bills.
(no subject)
Date: 2010-09-01 08:14 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2010-09-01 10:07 pm (UTC)I'm actually rather grateful that I stopped taking the comics seriously
at the beginningages ago. I know this because nothing in the comics seems to impact my feelings about the characters. I mean, Angel has been going around trying to destroy the world and my reaction has been, "Boy, the writers are screwing Angel over."I'm not even miffed at Buffy for this idiocy, which must mean I just don't think of it as her at all. It's a bad cartoon.