3 fanon things confirmed

[maggie2]

Needless to say (!) I'm really happy about the preview pages.  It could get me to revert to being a Spuffy.

But aside from wanting (like crazy) to speculate about Buffy's smile and Spike's not-made bed, here are three things that Dark Horse has delivered us about Spike:

1.  It's now text that Spike has a more sizeable package than the other vampire.  Proof?  You don't boast to your ex about your package when she's in a position to make a direct comparison with your rival unless you think that comparison works for you.

2. Spike went to college.  OK, this was pretty much a given -- but now it's unmistakeable.

3.  He's got some sophisticated tastes underneath that bad rude exterior.

How many ways can I possibly say how happy I am that he's back at DH and being written by folks who know that there's more to Spike that womanizing and brawls?

Allie deserves a shout out on this.  So here's me, shouting out.

Finally: does that scene not reek of "Trust is for old marrieds, Buffy"?  I'll take it over space boinking and bestest day ever shenanigans any day of the week.

Comments

[angearia.livejournal.com]

The other big thing I noticed was Buffy's comment to him "Like Dawn is a Key?" - I think that lays to rest the idea that Dawn's Keyness is a long-forgotten and abandoned storyline. They're reminding us of it too often.

They're reminding us of it too often for it to be a brilliant twist. I rather think it's a red herring--Dawn is the Key, she's going to die--and that it's Xander who's going to die. I expect Dawn's role will more hinge upon Dawn being unmade if the magic goes out.

Also note how Buffy says "Like how Dawn is a Key" and Spike then changes the metaphor: "Forget 'key', thinks 'cork'." And last time I thought of what a cork would do, it reminds me of doll!Dawn smashing and her soul spilling out. I think it again fits with this idea of Dawn being unmade and what danger that entails. And Xander is the one who will fight the hardest to keep her safe. And possibly die protecting her. Finally, he'll get to save the woman he loves. Though he might die doing it. :(

[stormwreath.livejournal.com]

They're reminding us of it too often for it to be a brilliant twist.

Maybe - I think there's a difference between the normal casual reader and people (like us) who analyse every single word of every issue for its potential significance. I don't know that the Key thing has been pushed that hard... just, you know, mentioned casually and in passing approximately once every arc. :-) It might still be a surprise twist to most of the audiene if her Keyness saves the day. Or, as you say, it might equally be a misdirect or red herring.

The idea of Xander finally saving the woman he loves instead of seeing her die - but at the cost of his own life - has a certain horrible brilliance to it.

[angearia.livejournal.com]

The idea of Xander finally saving the woman he loves instead of seeing her die - but at the cost of his own life - has a certain horrible brilliance to it.

Yeah, I'm placing my bets on this now. It is indeed horrible brilliance. And even knowing this is coming, it's not like it'll soften the blow. Xander. :(

Has Xander been mentioned at all in talks regarding Season 9?

[2maggie2.livejournal.com]

Talk about Xander and season 9? Not so much. And it doees have a certain sort of horrible brilliance, doesn't it. #39 talks about deaths. Maybe they both go out.

[lusciousxander.livejournal.com]

Haven't heard any talks about Xander and S9, which is why I think it's Xander who's gonna die. We heard that Buffy, Angel, Spike, Willow, Giles and Faith are gonna be in S9. But nothing about Xander or Dawn, and since they're hinting too much to Dawn dying, it's obvious that it's gonna be Xander.

[angearia.livejournal.com]

Oh god, this is gonna hurt. :(

[2maggie2.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't say it's a done deal -- but it'd be wrenching, which means it's on the table. :(

[lusciousxander.livejournal.com]

Looking at the list of charactes in S9, it doesn't read right without Xander's name in it. :( I don't know, a BtVS without Buffy, Xander and Willow is just weird.

[angearia.livejournal.com]

Part of the reason I think Xander is in serious danger is because Joss wanted to kill him in Season 7 but the other writers talked him out of it. I don't think the other writers would talk him out of it now. They'd probably say, okay Joss, we get it, you want to kill Xander. It's been years now and you still want to. It's your comic.

Joss seems more unilaterally in control here than he did even for the TV series. So...

:(

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Since he's been the most likable, in-character person, that does put him in danger. Add in being in love... Yeah, Xander could have the target painted on him. I'll be quite peeved if Joss kills him.

[infinitewhale.livejournal.com]

Xander is Mary Sue-like compared to the others.

He's either a dead man or he's behind it all.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

I was just distracted that the analogy was ripped off wholesale from Lost, complete with bottle. Is Spike Jacob now? (he was already shown as Twilight Jacob and now he's quoting Lost Jacob).

[angearia.livejournal.com]

I'm going to say something I never I would say, but Dorotea is right: Joss didn't wholesale rip off Lost.

The Harvest

Giles: This is what we know. Some sixty years ago, a very old, very powerful vampire came to this shore, not just to feed.

Buffy: He came 'cause this town's a mystical who's it.

Giles: Yes. The Spanish who first settled here called it 'Boca del Infierno'. Roughly translated, 'Hellmouth'. It's a sort of, um, portal between this reality and the next. This vampire hopes to open it.

Buffy: Bring the demons back.

Xander: End of the world.

Willow: But he blew it! Or, I mean, there was an earthquake that swallowed half the town, and him, too.

Giles: You see, opening dimensional portals is a tricky business. Odds are he got himself stuck, rather like a, uh, cork in a bottle.

Xander: And this Harvest thing is to get him out.

So yeah, Lost doesn't own that metaphor. What's more, Joss used it thirteen years ago to again reference the Master, the Hellmouth and the mystical convergence thereof.

So... yeah. It's kinda like accusing Joss of ripping of Twilight by writing the Buffy/Angel storyline in Season 2.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Lost had Jacob holding a bottle of wine while making the cork metaphor, using the bottle to demonstrate...the issue after having Oceanic flight 815. Plus, the whole finale hinged on the heart oh the island and it's cork. It's just way too similar for my taste.

[angearia.livejournal.com]

Again, it's not wholesale rip off considering they already used that metaphor to describe this very situation 13 years ago. It's a wink at best, but one that they're justified in using because they already established it's relevance in the second episode of the series.

Also, Jeanty added in the Oceanic on the plane as a joke. Go back in time and tell all the movies that use Oceanic that they too are ripping off Lost through time travel. The plane crashing is an allusion to Superman, not Lost. Jeanty just thought that added detail was funny. Like having Willow reading Wicked. It wasn't directed in the script.

So again, they're winks to Lost, not wholesale ripoffs. Which is funny to be accused of since the Lost creators cite Buffy as one of the huge influences on the show, as I recall. I mean, the creators even cited Buffy as an example of what they wanted to do and how they directed their writing staff (plus, Hai Drew Goddard).

It's just way too similar for my taste.

Right, but is that Buffy's fault? People have already noted the extreme similarities between the final season of Buffy and the final season of Lost. Plus, the Hellmouth/cork-in-a-bottle thing has been on the table for years before Lost's finale was even a twinkle in the public consciousness. Similar creations aren't ripoffs just because they're similar.

[infinitewhale.livejournal.com]

It's not really the metaphor, though, it's the actual plot. The Source is a mystical plug that keeps evil contained. It has a protector that, we can guess, has the ability to push people. That's not in Joss's original idea where it was the Master getting stuck in the Hellmouth.

You could say even then, though, that Joss had all this plotted before Lost was over, but there are quite a few similarities and when you add in all the other shout-outs/homages, it's a little sigh-worthy.

[angearia.livejournal.com]

Yeah, but like you said, this has been plotted out for ages now. And the idea of the Hellmouth being the source of the balance as the center for mystical convergence, plus the whole cork in the bottle imagery to show how the Hellmouth is being imagined as a cork in the bottle for along time now, then you have the egg which has been around long before Lost really got into gear with the Man in Black and Jacob.

Similarities, aye. But then, did people cry foul when discussing how the final season of Lost mirrored Buffy Season 7? At least there's actually a reason to cry foul then since the Lost creators said they used BtVS as a model for how to write their series. With Buffy Season 8, the cork, the seed, the plot--it's been years in the making.

Anyways, it's not like this crap was interesting when it was done on Lost either. I mean, this stuff is the phlebotinum that gets us to the interesting character interaction, the moral choices and the action. Who cares?

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

I'm not blaming Buffy for Lost shout-outs. I'm blaming the writing that has been o.d.ing on shout-outs to various other projects for most of its run.

The thing with Lost and this reference is that it's more than just a line of similarity. It's a great deal of overlap, from using the bottle to the whole plan to go down a cave into the heart of the island wonder to deal with the 'cork'. All of that has a similarity, and that's on top of all the other references from Watchmen onward.

I'd rather a bit less shout-outing. It sometimes feels like their dangling bright objects in front of us to distract us from the fact that in concrete terms the plot doesn't bear much scrutiny.