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State of Confusion Prompts Stream of Conscience Rambling
The last few days have been depressing, haven't they? I feel the need to ramble a bit.
I like the comics. I think they have a shot at being really great. Yet when I read Barb's post on the preview pages for #37, and especially the comments, I feel sad. Not because people disagree with me. Not because I feel like my own position is being slighted. But because people I respect, admire and even care about seem wounded by the comics. And I wonder if every time I write about them it's rubbing salt in wounds. I don't know what to do with that. I'm enjoying the note project. But my ongoing engagement with the fandom is because I think the comics are interesting to think about, and they are what I most want to write about.
Obviously people can just not read my stuff. It's just the parting of the ways, that seems sad. And the feeling that some people might carry on reading my posts even if it makes them unhappy.
On the Spuffy. I am first and foremost a Spike fan. That puts me in a different spot. In principle, Spike could get trashed the way Angel has been thoroughly trashed. But I rather more suspect that Spike is playing a role in the comics similar to Faith. Faith is there as a contrast case for Buffy. Spike is there as a contrast case for Angel. That decenters Spike some -- or would if that's all we get. But Spike's story is actually done. He's died the big glorious death. I could certainly enjoy and value a story going forward about him coming into his own. I'd love to see him get a big loving happy ending with someone. But I don't need that. He's made his big life choice, and we've seen enough to know that it's real. Whatever else we get is nice, but I don't need something. Ergo, I can kick back and enjoy him flying in on his bug ship; sitting around on his bed in white socks; and being quintessentially Spike with his cork example (repeated for Xander's benefit!).
I'm grateful that he's not coming in all weepy about the Bangel. I don't mind him dissing Buffy for her lack of education. She chose Captain Hammer over him and if he wants to get in his digs, I don't have a problem with it. She's leveled a lot of low blows on him over the years. And she's been very harsh when he needed a kick in the pants (Get it Done). I've learned to appreciate what she was doing there. He's doing the same for her here. She does need a kick in the pants.
Buffy's character has been put into a very dark light. I actively like this. Buffy has always been a little bit self-righteous. The next step in her story had to be the place where her moral certainty gets battered. I doubt we leave it here; she'll build back up, and will be a richer character for the journey. Is it OOC that Buffy has fallen in the manner we see her fall here? I'll ponder that a bit more below. But the fact of her fall isn't a problem for me.
I think it's very interesting to see Spike and Buffy together when he's the one with the moral high ground. From the moment we had the BtBR panel, I've wondered how that would play. A lot of people assume Spike would be all pro-Buffy no matter what. I hoped he wouldn't. I like the way he's handling it here. He's calling her on what she needs to be called on, but in a way that firmly maintains the connection between them. The reason I count this as a very positive development in Spuffy is because the ground has shifted in a way that is interesting, and because the aura of old marrieds is so overwhelming. Even if it's only friendship, these two have come such a phenomenal distance together.
Do I need more? Do I need UST or sex or hearts and flowers? I'd like it, to be sure. But I think there's something right to the thought that any S/B love relationship really needs Buffy's Bangel issues to be knocked out first. Were they not, Spike would be re-running his relationship with Dru -- having 'epic' love with a woman for whom he's the second choice. Buffy needs to have Angel and have it not work before she could get to a real Spuffy relationship that would make me happy. The comics have created space for that -- since Joss has taken a wrecking ball to Bangel. I don't think we'll enter into that space -- or at least not any time soon. But we're going to have real friendship, I think. Maybe even with benefits. (The scene is in the bedroom; Georges has said shirtless Spike; neutral readers are catching a whiff of something; Georges has told the Bangels to be very afraid specifically about the Spuffy; it's not impossible).
Perhaps for Spuffy fans who think that the Bangel issues were already history this doesn't work. But I've always thought that Angel had a stranglehold on Buffy's heart -- and I like that the story is finally dealing with that. I like that a lot.
One thing that made me very happy about the Spuffy pages we've seen so far is that some non-shipper fans who never much saw the appeal of Spuffy liked them here. There's a rehabilitation of Spike (and possibly Spuffy) that I appreciate. It's a relationship that is and was important, even if it ends up not being 'shippy. And that's now very well established. And like I said, posts from folks saying they never much liked them before, but like them now make me happy. I like for Spike to be liked.
That leaves the big looming question. Joss has turned Angel into Captain Hammer. He's writing a story about how Twu Wuv 4eva Bangel literally destroys his narrative 'verse. I love the subtext on those things becoming in your face text. But. It's doing so by telling a different sort of story. The entire 'verse is knocked askew. I read the Twilight event as literally taking the show and turning it into bad fanfic. Elements of the story are lifted out, highlighted, and thereby distorted. It's not just Angel or Bangel. Xander is practically a Gary Stu. Willow is a goddess. Places like England and Germany are now bad cliches. The entire structure of the 'verse is bent and twisted and distorted and is going to rip apart. We've been told repeatedly that nothing will be the same in the wake of the finale of season 8. I read Buffy's distortions in this context. Angel was always her prince. But that element of her story is now exaggerated and distorted. It makes her look like she's regressed. I think there's a truth to it that's important. I stand by my "Spuffy reading" (which was really an anti-Bangel reading). But it's truth told strange. I want to see how it plays out. But do understand that the reason it works for me is because it's in the context of this funhouse version of 'the verse.
The meta is inevitably going to be painful for fans. Buffy's story had been told. To want to revisit it for more of the same would be to invite a rehash and banality. Fans may want that, a lot. But it can't be a good story if it just keeps going because fans want to. The seed of the story was planted and was fruitful, but it had an expiration date. The only way the story can go on in a vital way is if the 'verse literally gets ripped apart and remade. I look forward to seeing what that looks like. But for everyone invested in the story as it was, Joss is very sharply saying let go. It's not surprising that a lot of fans *are* letting go. I'm not sure how I feel about that. I admire what the story has to do. I don't like the destruction left in its wake. I'm especially ambivalent about the naked metaphors about the fandom, which I read as portraying us as at least somewhat malevolent. I'd say Joss has some issues with us.
My last thought of the afternoon is about Buffy being punished again for sex. No. That's not what's happening here. Her sex with Satsu wasn't punished. It wasn't going to take cause she wasn't much with the gay and she wasn't open for relationship with her, but the sex was good and nothing bad happened as a consequence. What we are doing is revisiting Buffy's primal wound around her first sexual experience. This is all about Angel, not all about sex. And nota bene: Spike's bed is in a corner just like Angel's bed was. That's what this is all about.
Thus my ramblings. I very much look forward to the last few issues. I am scared. If all the 'verse is distorted and trashed, Spike may well catch it bad at some point. My hope is that he and Faith are there for different reasons. But who knows? Meanwhile, I am very sad about the present turmoil in the fandom. Big hugs all around. I've got no comfort to offer, and I hate it when people are hurting.
I like the comics. I think they have a shot at being really great. Yet when I read Barb's post on the preview pages for #37, and especially the comments, I feel sad. Not because people disagree with me. Not because I feel like my own position is being slighted. But because people I respect, admire and even care about seem wounded by the comics. And I wonder if every time I write about them it's rubbing salt in wounds. I don't know what to do with that. I'm enjoying the note project. But my ongoing engagement with the fandom is because I think the comics are interesting to think about, and they are what I most want to write about.
Obviously people can just not read my stuff. It's just the parting of the ways, that seems sad. And the feeling that some people might carry on reading my posts even if it makes them unhappy.
On the Spuffy. I am first and foremost a Spike fan. That puts me in a different spot. In principle, Spike could get trashed the way Angel has been thoroughly trashed. But I rather more suspect that Spike is playing a role in the comics similar to Faith. Faith is there as a contrast case for Buffy. Spike is there as a contrast case for Angel. That decenters Spike some -- or would if that's all we get. But Spike's story is actually done. He's died the big glorious death. I could certainly enjoy and value a story going forward about him coming into his own. I'd love to see him get a big loving happy ending with someone. But I don't need that. He's made his big life choice, and we've seen enough to know that it's real. Whatever else we get is nice, but I don't need something. Ergo, I can kick back and enjoy him flying in on his bug ship; sitting around on his bed in white socks; and being quintessentially Spike with his cork example (repeated for Xander's benefit!).
I'm grateful that he's not coming in all weepy about the Bangel. I don't mind him dissing Buffy for her lack of education. She chose Captain Hammer over him and if he wants to get in his digs, I don't have a problem with it. She's leveled a lot of low blows on him over the years. And she's been very harsh when he needed a kick in the pants (Get it Done). I've learned to appreciate what she was doing there. He's doing the same for her here. She does need a kick in the pants.
Buffy's character has been put into a very dark light. I actively like this. Buffy has always been a little bit self-righteous. The next step in her story had to be the place where her moral certainty gets battered. I doubt we leave it here; she'll build back up, and will be a richer character for the journey. Is it OOC that Buffy has fallen in the manner we see her fall here? I'll ponder that a bit more below. But the fact of her fall isn't a problem for me.
I think it's very interesting to see Spike and Buffy together when he's the one with the moral high ground. From the moment we had the BtBR panel, I've wondered how that would play. A lot of people assume Spike would be all pro-Buffy no matter what. I hoped he wouldn't. I like the way he's handling it here. He's calling her on what she needs to be called on, but in a way that firmly maintains the connection between them. The reason I count this as a very positive development in Spuffy is because the ground has shifted in a way that is interesting, and because the aura of old marrieds is so overwhelming. Even if it's only friendship, these two have come such a phenomenal distance together.
Do I need more? Do I need UST or sex or hearts and flowers? I'd like it, to be sure. But I think there's something right to the thought that any S/B love relationship really needs Buffy's Bangel issues to be knocked out first. Were they not, Spike would be re-running his relationship with Dru -- having 'epic' love with a woman for whom he's the second choice. Buffy needs to have Angel and have it not work before she could get to a real Spuffy relationship that would make me happy. The comics have created space for that -- since Joss has taken a wrecking ball to Bangel. I don't think we'll enter into that space -- or at least not any time soon. But we're going to have real friendship, I think. Maybe even with benefits. (The scene is in the bedroom; Georges has said shirtless Spike; neutral readers are catching a whiff of something; Georges has told the Bangels to be very afraid specifically about the Spuffy; it's not impossible).
Perhaps for Spuffy fans who think that the Bangel issues were already history this doesn't work. But I've always thought that Angel had a stranglehold on Buffy's heart -- and I like that the story is finally dealing with that. I like that a lot.
One thing that made me very happy about the Spuffy pages we've seen so far is that some non-shipper fans who never much saw the appeal of Spuffy liked them here. There's a rehabilitation of Spike (and possibly Spuffy) that I appreciate. It's a relationship that is and was important, even if it ends up not being 'shippy. And that's now very well established. And like I said, posts from folks saying they never much liked them before, but like them now make me happy. I like for Spike to be liked.
That leaves the big looming question. Joss has turned Angel into Captain Hammer. He's writing a story about how Twu Wuv 4eva Bangel literally destroys his narrative 'verse. I love the subtext on those things becoming in your face text. But. It's doing so by telling a different sort of story. The entire 'verse is knocked askew. I read the Twilight event as literally taking the show and turning it into bad fanfic. Elements of the story are lifted out, highlighted, and thereby distorted. It's not just Angel or Bangel. Xander is practically a Gary Stu. Willow is a goddess. Places like England and Germany are now bad cliches. The entire structure of the 'verse is bent and twisted and distorted and is going to rip apart. We've been told repeatedly that nothing will be the same in the wake of the finale of season 8. I read Buffy's distortions in this context. Angel was always her prince. But that element of her story is now exaggerated and distorted. It makes her look like she's regressed. I think there's a truth to it that's important. I stand by my "Spuffy reading" (which was really an anti-Bangel reading). But it's truth told strange. I want to see how it plays out. But do understand that the reason it works for me is because it's in the context of this funhouse version of 'the verse.
The meta is inevitably going to be painful for fans. Buffy's story had been told. To want to revisit it for more of the same would be to invite a rehash and banality. Fans may want that, a lot. But it can't be a good story if it just keeps going because fans want to. The seed of the story was planted and was fruitful, but it had an expiration date. The only way the story can go on in a vital way is if the 'verse literally gets ripped apart and remade. I look forward to seeing what that looks like. But for everyone invested in the story as it was, Joss is very sharply saying let go. It's not surprising that a lot of fans *are* letting go. I'm not sure how I feel about that. I admire what the story has to do. I don't like the destruction left in its wake. I'm especially ambivalent about the naked metaphors about the fandom, which I read as portraying us as at least somewhat malevolent. I'd say Joss has some issues with us.
My last thought of the afternoon is about Buffy being punished again for sex. No. That's not what's happening here. Her sex with Satsu wasn't punished. It wasn't going to take cause she wasn't much with the gay and she wasn't open for relationship with her, but the sex was good and nothing bad happened as a consequence. What we are doing is revisiting Buffy's primal wound around her first sexual experience. This is all about Angel, not all about sex. And nota bene: Spike's bed is in a corner just like Angel's bed was. That's what this is all about.
Thus my ramblings. I very much look forward to the last few issues. I am scared. If all the 'verse is distorted and trashed, Spike may well catch it bad at some point. My hope is that he and Faith are there for different reasons. But who knows? Meanwhile, I am very sad about the present turmoil in the fandom. Big hugs all around. I've got no comfort to offer, and I hate it when people are hurting.
no subject
Joss is so totally Buffy. That she's still obsessed with childish things and needs her world to fall apart to move forward is astonishing self-criticism. The question of whether Joss loves Buffy seems in some ways silly--he obviously loves her, have you seen the way he writes her?--but maybe he does wish she, and he, could move forward.
Anyway, he's also Dr. Horrible, who kills the woman (character?) he loves as part of his plans to be noticed, and then finds himself lonelier than ever when he becomes famous.
no subject
I've always gotten the feeling that with the more power Joss gets, the more uncomfortable he is with what it does to him. His stories always seem to come back to abuse of power and how power can lead to darkness.
And as Joss has become more powerful in his career, his stories about abuse of power have become more and more incisive.
no subject
And at the end of Chosen he finished his show. He was done. And now the story went on to whoever wanted to continue the story. But...could he really let go of being the one storyteller? And there were people out there abusing the story, as well as people making something beautiful out of it. Wasn't Chosen asking the viewer to be strong and take control? Why is he back in charge, when the story should be in the hands of every viewer?
"Thing about changing the world. Is when you do...the world's all different. Everybody calls me 'sir' these days.... Here at Command Central, not so much with the hilarious. More with 'What the hell am I doing?'"
no subject
It's why calling this crackfic feels... hurtful to him. I can't imagine my posting a story I poured my heart and soul into and someone coming along and tearing it apart.
I mean, I understand how and why people call Season 8 crackfic. It has crackiliciousness in it. But it is coming from a heartfelt place and I understand not liking the story, but when I read Season 8, I kinda just ache because of all the self-disgust in it, because of all the issues I can see an almost invisible thread tracing back to Joss.
We write who we are. We write from places of pain, our pain.
And I think about Joss calling himself a "sad, bitter old man" and there's this self-awareness there, that he sees himself this way and I think maybe wishes he wasn't.
no subject
Anyway, just wanted to chirp in and say, yeah!
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But sometimes I can't help thinking about it. It's just another layer to the story that adds resonance for me.
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no subject
Gah.
no subject
Joss’s own version of how he came back to write Buffy is rather different and less angst ridden. Scott Allie badgering him about the comic line got him thinking about Buffy and Co again and he heard their voices speaking to him again. I really don’t think it was about showing fans who’s da man, more the fun of reconnecting with his characters. S8 just doesn’t feel to me like he’s destroying his creation, I can sort of see why people might feel that but I don’t. I still love the Buffy he’s writing and I don’t find her out of character, I don’t need to invoke a glow effect to understand why she did what she did and said what she’s said. There’s a joy to S8 and all its absurdities that feel more like someone playing than breaking. It doesn’t feel like the characters or the story being deconstructed, more like they’re being remixed. That said, I’ve used Frankenstein metaphors for remixing (aka vidding) and how it feels before. There always is a certain violence to cutting up and sticking back together but it’s also like dancing, call and response. Joss is dancing with the voices in his head, setting them to different music but underneath all the new harmonies the old song is still there. In the interview with Wizard he said with S8 he wanted to do something similar to “All Star Superman” and that book was pitched as:
Our New Superman approach is an honest attempt to synthesize the best of all previous eras. Our intention is to honor each of Superman’s various interpretations and to use internal story logic as our launching pad for a re-imagined, streamlined 21st century Man of Steel. The ‘cosmic reset’ notion has been replaced by a policy of ‘include and transcend’ with regard to past continuity.
Several of S8’s arcs are re-imaginings of classics from the TV series, most obviously the whole sleeping with Angel destroys the world. It’s being down epic, done comic book style but simple emotional underpinning is still there. Angel wanting to create a happy ever after Twilight for Buffy to live in is absurd and grandiose on a world destroying scale but at heart it’s the same as Xander’s desire in the latest preview to take Dawn away from it all, to make a place for us, to retire from all the world saving. It's very human.
no subject
I do think that Joss' destroying the story is maybe overstating the case. But the remixing is not just a matter of turning it up to epic, it also involves exposing the silliness AND the emotional underpinning that's always been there. It's like a Douglas Sirk movie, where it's being played straight and being mercilessly self-mocking at the same time. I've watched All that Heaven Allows and not cracked a smile, and Imitation of Life in a Film 101 class and never laughed harder; it just requires a slight turn of the head. The show had some of this ridiculousness (especially in things like OMWF) but not quite on the same level. So I think there is a deliberate distancing effect in having Angel turning into a Hammer-like caricature (though still recognizably Angel, just with most of his guilt and reluctance removed), having all the steam trains still running in Germany, having all the forest creatures everywhere, etc. Overdosing us on Wonder before we get to the Seed. In-story and out-of-story seem to be merging here. It's not a criticism, and I can turn my head and read the story straight, but I think it is off in deliberate ways. Sorry if I can't articulate it very well.
But anyway I agree on the point that the emotional underpinnings are still there to the story.
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Joss has always said that BtVS (of all his shows) had a musical sensibility and that works very like Sirk. It's at once utterly ridiculous that people are breaking into song and utterly true to how they feel. I guess I've always felt that knife edge, that head turn away from absurdity in Buffy. The world-building has never held together as world-building but that's been a strength not a problem to me. The comics don't feel so different. Angel always was Captain Hammer, I don't need to be told that Buffy is his Penny, that's been clear from the start, I think she knows it too. But he's not just the guy who thinks he signaled her with his eyes, he is someone who needs her to save him in a real human way too. So I wonder whether where this is going isn't deconstructing the Bella/Edward of B/A but the Jane/Rochester and that's more interesting because Buffy needing to save people isn't a weakness to get over, it's a strength, it's part of what makes her heroic. There's a genuine dilemma there a very Jossian one about passion. Can't live with it, can't live without it.
no subject
Angel always was Captain Hammer, I don't need to be told that Buffy is his Penny, that's been clear from the start, I think she knows it too.
Angel was always Captain Hammer, but he also brooded and felt guilty about his massive arrays of sins. This Angel does in the Riley one-shot, yes, but by "Twilight" and "Last Gleaming" he's very blase about having nearly ended the world. Angel in the past would have at least felt the need to do angsty voice-over pushups ala Redefinition. It's not that that isn't itself very silly, but it's still at least a more layered bit of silliness, some indications of at least attempts at introspection, that the current Angel doesn't have. Who knows, maybe we'll get some soon. But again, I see it more as amping up Angel's Hammer-ness until it's impossible to ignore, rather than just reproducing Angel's absolutely normal behaviour.
You might be right about the Jane/Rochester but my Jane Eyre knowledge is fuzzy (read: nonexistent, though I did see I Walked with a Zombie which is supposed to be a quasi-remake, with zombies, prefiguring Pride and Prejudice and Zombies by sixty years).
and that's more interesting because Buffy needing to save people isn't a weakness to get over, it's a strength, it's part of what makes her heroic. There's a genuine dilemma there a very Jossian one about passion. Can't live with it, can't live without it.
I do very much like this point. I don't know if I can see Buffy's actions in Twilight as being primarily motivated by a selfless desire to help Angel by letting him try to save her. But maybe if I tilt my head on a reread it'll come through.
no subject