Dollhouse Tonight

[maggie2]

The buzz is quite good.  I'm looking forward to it.   But over the summer, my reservations about the show increased rather than decreased. Thoughts on Epitaph One below the cut.

Everybody loved this episode.  So I've watched it three times to try to see if I could get over my problems with it -- but no luck.  As a story it's very entertaining and well-done -- not at all boring even watching it three times in a row.  But it has really lowered my hopes for the series as a whole.  Three things worry me:

1.  Echoes (episode #7)  was a disappointment because Caroline's backstory turns out to be a totally dull and grating cliche.  I've got no affection for the character and pretty much want her to get squashed like a bug.  I'd been hoping there were more layers there or that Echo, at least, would be something other than Dudleyette-do-right.  Well, in Omega, it turns out that Echo just wants to do good.  The only layered thing we know about Caroline is that she agreed to be wiped in the first place (that's not a small thing).  But even that layer seems to be gone in Echo who reacts 180-degrees differently to her situation than did Alpha.  I don't watch the Jossverse to root for pure heroes saving the day.  But as of Omega it seemed more likely that this was the case.  And Epitaph One just seems to say that's really how the whole show will run out.  Echo will save them all, or at least be their best hope for salvation.  Gag. 

2.  The folks who run dollhouse all have plenty of potential to be more than corporate tools.  Epitaph One tells us that they will all learn their lesson.  Just exactly the one we thought they needed to learn from the beginning.  They were children playing with matches and they burned the house down.  (Yes, that's a line -- in fact that's probably THE epitaph).  I don't watch the Jossverse for stories to unfold in an utterly predictable way.  But here it is.  Again with the cliche.

3.  At the end of Man on the Street there's an interview with a professor who says that this technology spells the end of the human race.  Now that was something I could get behind.  We're steadily increasing how much of human nature we can control.  There's going to be an inescapable push to engineer our future generations to be smarter, better, more.  We'll design better and better environments to get the otucomes we want.  That's all in the mix here.  Not to mention the way this technology serves as a metaphor for the way advertising and popular culture end up forming us into the people that the advertisers want us to be.  So I was very enthusiastic about all the subversive ways this show could point out the subversive ways we are destroying human freedom or human nature without noticing that's what we're doing.  There were a lot of ways to go.  Fast forward to Epitaph One, though, and it turns out that the danger of this technology is much less insidious than that.  On the contrary, it's just going to let bad people create armies so they can blow up the world.  Woo hoo.  Yes that's an apocalypse.  And yes, this technology could go that way.  But the dystopia that we could have been shown would be one where evil people had imprinted our presidents, entertainment folks and so on so that they could totally control the world and all the people in it without one of us noticing that the apocalypse had happened.  My evil people are just smarter than Dollhouse's evil people -- cause really, what good is it to have a world blowed up when instead you could have billions of unwitting slaves working for you and leaving you in total power?

Whatever.  The good news is that I'm sure everything in Epitaph One can be written around if Joss, et. al. decide to.  All the reports on the new season are good.  But Epitaph One read to me a bit like Lynch's treatment of the Shanshu prophecy... and I'm consistent enough to say I don't like that kind of flattening of meaning even if it comes from Joss himself.  So, me, less optimistic.

Comments

[quinara]

I'm still 100% squeeful, but I can see where you're coming from. Definitely I'll be interested to see how much we're supposed to be rooting for Echo, because I think there's room for more than one perspective in the show. Echo/Caroline is a fairly straight-cut goody-goody - but so was Paul, supposedly. One of my favourite things about Epitaph One was the implication that Caroline quite possibly left DeWitt and Topher with bullets in their brains when she 'rescued' all the dolls. And in Needs I think we're supposed to trust Dr. Saunders that Caroline's desire to free all the dolls is actually very short-sighted (and self-centred, really).

For me it all depends on what direction they take it. Part of me is a bit miffed that Epitaph One is a definite future, but at the same time being told how it all ends (and that ending being dull and cliché) is something I find quite interesting. It's like being told to ignore the 'plot' interest and concentrate instead on everything else that's happening, which I think lends itself to a constant critique of the characters. I feel like, in that sort of context, Echo can't be treated uncritically, because otherwise the show will have cut itself off from two sources of interest, which seems a bit loopy.

Of course, Joss has a tendency to write things that look cleverer than they really are, and it's very possibly it will just be sooper-shiny-Caroline against the mean-nasty-world. But, dammit, after years of the comics he's due something decent...

Or, in other words, *bounces*

[2maggie2.livejournal.com]

I hate losing my squee -- but part of why I posted this now is cause I'm hoping I'll be singing a different tune tonight!

I missed Dr. Saunders' take on Caroline in Needs -- I'd love it if they did more with that (and there's plenty of room to).

And I do agree that there are ways they could go, even in this framework, that would be really interesting. Being less hopeful, doesn't mean having lost all hope!

I assume you saw the preview clips from Vows? Tonight should be really good.

[quinara]

Oh yes, Vows looks amazing!! (Heh, does this mean you've heard me rhapsodise about my love of spoilers at some point?) I think Claire/Whiskey has pretty much established herself as my favourite character (which I'm amused by, considering how much I didn't like Fred). I can't believe Joss couldn't get Amy Acker for more than a few episodes.

I missed Dr. Saunders' take on Caroline in Needs -- I'd love it if they did more with that (and there's plenty of room to).

She tells Boyd at the end that Caroline wasn't leading the dolls to freedom, but to terror and chaos - DeWitt says basically the same thing to Caroline (that the dolls will find the stimulation and conflict of the outside world overwhelming), but gets almost literally shot down. The question is, I suppose, whom Gray Hour proves right. I can't say I thought Echo was coping particularly well in that episode...

Ee! I can't believe I have to wait till tomorrow morning to stream it. Damn time zones!!

[2maggie2.livejournal.com]

You know, I don't even *think* of Fred when I see Claire/Whiskey. And, big word to how awesome her character is.

I'll comment back tonight just about whether or not I'm squeeing at 10:00 pm EDT!

[quinara]

You know, I don't even *think* of Fred when I see Claire/Whiskey.

I did at the beginning, mostly because I was scared of her being cast as a similar character (Joss seems to love that archetype), but now she's become so different, it's amazing. Hats off to AA, definitely.

I'll comment back tonight just about whether or not I'm squeeing at 10:00 pm EDT!

Ooh, do let me know! I might well still be awake. *ponders fic-writing*

[2maggie2.livejournal.com]

Well, I'm not all the way back to squee -- but it's pretty darned good.

Hope the fic writing is going well!

[quinara]

Off to watch and review! Thanks for the tease - though it turned out I was too sleepy to stay away (I didn't realise you were six hours ahead rather than five). :)

[shapinglight]

:shades eyes with hand:

I want to read this but can't, as have only seen 4 eps so far. Didn't like ep 4 much, though it wasn't entirely without interest by a long way.

Hope you enjoy the season opener.

[2maggie2.livejournal.com]

But, but, we had the whole Echo as a Picasso thing going on!! [/sarcasm] I like caper plots, so I liked #4 -- but that's on a scale relative to the other opening four. Am glad you have liked them better than I did. I'm looking forwards to your reactions as you go further.

I think there's good reason to be optimistic tonight. The preview clips look good, and the word is all very good.

[shapinglight]

But, but, we had the whole Echo as a Picasso thing going on!!

:snort: Yeah, that was a bit hard to take, and probably one of the reasons why I didn't like this episode so much, or at least not the parts with Echo in it.

There was lots of other interesting stuff, though, including everything with the creepy little Warrenalike and the lady boss (can't remember anyone's names, I'm afraid), and it was fun seeing Echo and Sierra play the same character.

[sueworld2003.livejournal.com]

For me the jury's still out on this series as 'season one' didn't do a huge amount for me. I liked some elements, but found some of it rather 'odd' and not in a good way. *g*

Epitaph one left me cold I'm afraid. Some good ides in it, but found myself still not caring If any of them lived or died. For me personally I'd probaly find it a whole more enjoyable If Echo had been played by somebody else.

[2maggie2.livejournal.com]

I'm more optimistic than you -- but like you not all the elements have worked for me, so I'm far from sure how it will go.

[rebcake.livejournal.com]

Um, I'm willing to just see what comes. I was pretty happy with Season 1, especially after a rewatch, and I kinda think that the possibilities of being Joss'ed are pretty high, which isn't such a bad thing. Also, at Comic-Con he implied that Epitaph One is a collection of not-completely-trustworthy memories. I'm a trusting sort. Though not so much trusting of memory, as time goes on.

[2maggie2.livejournal.com]

Trust is good. I'm in a bit of a post-trusting Joss phase cause of where the comics are... but he has done good things before and DH could be one of them. ITA that he's got wiggle room in terms of what sticks from Epitaph -- and even without that there's always the "what things look like on the surface isn't necessarily what they are" approach.

[next_to_normal]

Yeah, I have similar feelings about "Epitaph One." Part of it could be that I didn't plan to watch it, so I read all the reviews. That means not only was I totally spoiled about the premise of the episode, but all the raving about it set my expectations kind of high. I was expecting "the best episode of Dollhouse yet," and while that wouldn't take much in my mind, this wasn't it.

I mostly found myself watching it and thinking, "Um, what happened to the metaphor?" Maybe someone else can explain the connection, but how does this dystopian future relate to the whole idea that the Dollhouse is a metaphor for the TV industry and popular culture? That was the thing I found most interesting about the show (since the premise as non-metaphorical scenario makes little sense to me), and I can't seem to make this piece fit the puzzle. Except possibly to say that TV will destroy the world, which... whatever.

Also, wholly agreed on the blahness of Echo/Caroline. That, coupled with Eliza's less than stellar acting, and I find myself way more interested in the minor characters. Can someone please offer Amy Acker more money and lure her away from her new show? I think she'd make an excellent centerpiece for Dollhouse.

[2maggie2.livejournal.com]

Maybe someone else can explain the connection, but how does this dystopian future relate to the whole idea that the Dollhouse is a metaphor for the TV industry and popular culture? That was the thing I found most interesting about the show (since the premise as non-metaphorical scenario makes little sense to me), and I can't seem to make this piece fit the puzzle.

Exactly! When I got all quivvery about DH it was because of that metaphor and the way it folds back onto the show itself. Epitaph just reads like a straight-up tale of technology gone mad. Throw in a huge number of interviews with Joss saying that they've been groping around to figure out what the show was, and I begin to think that the cool metaphor was only accidentally there. I miss naively trusting Joss in all things. :(

Is there anybody who doesn't think AA rocks in this show? No accident that she got featured heavily in the clips they released.

[next_to_normal]

I miss naively trusting Joss in all things. :(

Wordy McWord. Of course, I also no longer trust anything Joss says in interviews, so maybe they DID intend the metaphor, and the "groping around" thing is just a cover for the fact that it looks like they have no idea what they're doing, when really they're just executing it badly?

...I'm not sure that makes it better.

[snickfic]

I've got no affection for the character and pretty much want her to get squashed like a bug.

Yes. Thank you. I wondered if I was supposed to like her, and I rather think I was, which suggests a horrible mismatch between me and this show.

OTOH, I've been much more interested in the dollhouse staff than the actives almost since the beginning because they, yanno, have actual personalities from one week to the next. Helps a lot with charcter arcs and such...

[2maggie2.livejournal.com]

I guess I'm mismatched too. But I am kind of wondering just how out of touch Whedon has to be to think he's sold her as an interesting character.

I do love the staff. Topher is great tonight. Really great. Can't say more...

[snickfic]

But I am kind of wondering just how out of touch Whedon has to be to think he's sold her as an interesting character.

So we're agreed that he does indeed think that? That we aren't just supposed to see her as another part of the problem, rather than an interesting character in her own right?

I feel a poll coming on...

I do love the staff. Topher is great tonight. Really great. Can't say more...

I do love the staff. Topher is great tonight. Really great. Can't say more...

It seems sort of surreal that the new TV season is starting. I'm out of the country, so anything I watch has to be through, ahem, nonstandard means, and I just haven't bothered much.

Topher! Topher and Adelle make the show for me, both separately and together. And I was very excited with how Omega started to lend him more complexity.

Okay. So now I have to remember to go watch the new ep tomorrow.

[2maggie2.livejournal.com]

Topher's reactions watching Victor as Dominic still sends chills up my spines. You're in for a treat in the first episode. Very good for Topher love. Not so much for Adelle. But I'm right there with you -- they are the two characters I'm most interested in.

I had convinced myself that "Caroline" from Echoes was just another imprint. That's how much I don't see her as an actual heroine. But I don't know how to read around Caroline-as-little-girl leading the survivors up a stairway to heaven. Am hoping it gets more interesting than that -- but the comics are teaching me to not just assume Joss is going to go in interesting directions with things.

[quinara]

But I don't know how to read around Caroline-as-little-girl leading the survivors up a stairway to heaven.

When I'm feeling cruel I find that ending the most bathetic thing I've ever seen. Unless there's some new cross-skyscraper-railroad in 2019, where the hell are they going? If Joss didn't realise that was more than a little unrealistic he really has lost the plot in my book.

[aycheb.livejournal.com]

But I don't know how to read around Caroline-as-little-girl leading the survivors up a stairway to heaven.
Butting in (because I just watched Vows and need to talk). I agree (about the knowing unrealism). Among other things: a) Joss doesn't believe in heaven and b) it's not Caroline-as-a-little-girl so much as Caroline-having-stolen-some-other-little-girl's-body.

[quinara]

it's not Caroline-as-a-little-girl so much as Caroline-having-stolen-some-other-little-g irl's-body.

Yes, of course, good point! The mission has definitely changed/been eroded there - 'let's find everyone their real selves' she says, unless I need a body.

[snickfic]

But I'm right there with you -- they are the two characters I'm most interested in.

It doesn't hurt that they've been the most fun, especially early on when the sense of fun on the show was seriously lacking. Complexity aside, they were already my favorites for sheer entertainment value. (Whereas I'm having trouble thinking of a single moment when I've actually enjoyed watching Echo, in any incarnation.)

I had convinced myself that "Caroline" from Echoes was just another imprint.

Oh! That interpretation had never occurred to me, but I wouldn't mind it at all. And this is Joss; it's not like he'd mind pulling the rug from under us by making that kind of revelation in S2.